Click here to hear/read transcripts of the first lecture of this 2 lecture series
TABLE OF CONTENTS
INTRODUCTION
Why this session is taken?
Devotees should think philosophically
One should be able to see problems using spiritual science
E.g. One need not be an astrologer to see problems in the world
One need not be an astrologer to see someone deviating from
Krishna Consciousness
Why not leave this issue for the board room level?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom level
until the end
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions7
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
Meaning of maintaining unity in diversity
HOW SHOULD ALL OF YOU RESPOND?
1. Let time take it’s course 8
Sometimes time works against Krishna Consciousness
Ex persecution of brahmanas
2. We should just follow Srila Prabhupada and not invent anything
new
3. Understand that maya will attack ISKCON
Ex Play by Girish Ghosh
Maya will attack ISKCON leaders especially 9
4. Do not think badly about the leaders but understand if there is
anything wrong 9
5. Either explain it to others or pacify them 9
ISSUE OF RADHANATH MAHARAJA PLAYING BLUES 9
JOURNEY HOME ISSUES 10
Journey Home will not give proper understanding of Krishna
Consciousness 10
How to stop it? 10
1. Inform local temples to promote Prabhupada’s books 10
2. Tell them to read Prabhupada’s biography 10
3. Show people difference in quality between JH and SP’s books 10
My experience of reading Srila Prabhupada’s books 11
4. Make proper policy to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books 11
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SRILA BHAKTIVINOD THAKURA? 11
1. It was not meant for mass distribution 11
2. Autobiographies should be there if it serves cause of Krishna
Consciousness 12
3. Journey Home is not serving cause of Krishna Consciousness
CAN AN ACARYA FALL DOWN?
Usage of term acarya in different ways
1. Acarya could mean on the level of Prabhupada
An acarya on the level of Prabhupada do not fall down
Reference for a guru falling down
Quote on even if devotee falls, he does not become a karmi
2. One can act as an acarya by following instructions of previous
acaryas
E.g.. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructing others to be guru
Even if someone not mahabhagavata can become guru by following
mahabhagavatas
E.g. Even if the leader is killed, fight goes on
To the dE.g.ree one follows Prabhupada to that extent one is guru
HOW TO DEAL WITH HRTVIKVADIS LIKE TIM LEE?
Understanding of hrtviks
Perception of Tim Lee about ISKCON
Advise on dealing with such people
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
How to answer someone complaining about ISKCON?
Accept and explain them the nature of big organization
E.g. Indian going to America and committing crime
High level of corruption has entered ISKCON
Lot of good things happening in ISKCON
E.g. Preaching in Gujarat
Tell them about me
All ISKCON leaders are working very hard to spread Krishna
Consciousness 16
E.g. HH Jayapataka Maharaja 16
No benefit in associating with hrtvikvadis 16
Why not sit together and work it all out
One should limit one’s speculation about the future
Situation in 80s
Illusion regarding the influence news will put on people in the
future
Article of Drutkarma prabhu
Why not American President & Head of communist party come
together and settle
things?
Things are not so easy to settle by coming together and talking
Big leaders are convinced that what they are doing is allright
GBC is thinking about doing something
People come up with their own reasoning
Why do people deviate
Maya is very strong
One should be afraid of maya
Do not compromise with mayavada
Mayavada is worse than Buddhism
INTRODUCTION
WHY THIS SESSION IS TAKEN?
A few days ago I gave a lecture about some points of concern about
ISKCON which was potentially controversial although no controversy has erupted
around it so far. I received a few questions about that which I will answer
now. “How should I advise my disciples on how should they respond to the
actions or questions posed to them by disciples of other gurus on the lecture,
especially when they live in a multi guru scenario?” Multi guru means in many
temples … not just temple but many communities of devotees, there are gurus of
different disciples where as in India, in particular and in some other areas we
find that most of the devotees are disciples of one guru. With the comment, “We
should not bring this debate from the board room to the grass rooms.” You know
what does that means? That there is some matter which should be settled at a
higher level and not just that junior devotees they argue among themselves and
I agree with that… I mean as I said when I gave that lecture, I am not on a
campaign. I feel that it’s just my duty to inform my disciples or anyone else
who wants to hear that there are certain problems which you should be aware of
because after all this is supposed to be a spiritual science.
DEVOTEES SHOULD THINK PHILOSOPHICALLY
Srila Prabhupada often spoke that it’s spiritual science, bhagavat
tattva vijnana. … that the science of knowledge of the Supreme Personality of
Godhead … so we should understand scientifically, it’s not just all sentiment.
And according to the science of Krishna Consciousness there are certain signs
which we should be able to recognize that something is not right. We do tend to
be … it’s another observation about our society … that we do tend to despite
Srila Prabhupada so much stressing that this is spiritual science. We do tend
to be not very scientific and we tend to be like a religion. The atheists they
criticize … one of their many criticisms of religion, many of them which are …
at least some are valid. One of the criticisms is that it’s a crutch, you have
all heard this, it’s a psychological crutch that you just, you are feeling
distress in this world and therefore you just take to religion and you hope
that there is something better going on somewhere else or that you can imagine
that there is a God or something like this. But that’s one reason why Srila
Prabhupada distinguished Krishna Consciousness from mundane religion, which it
is different. It’s supposed to be a spiritual science in which one doesn’t just
take a religion like a sleeping pill … like the class is like a sleeping pill
right? That you just join a religion and you think, “Well now I am safe, do
whatever” and then you just don’t think about anything. But rather one is
supposed to … ideally one is supposed to take to it with his intelligence. Of
course we can’t expect everyone to be like that. But Srila Prabhupada, he
specifically set up … one of his specific aims in ISKCON was to train a new
class of Brahmanas, thinking people. Brahmanas mean not just one who learns but
the best class of Brahmanas is one who can think philosophically. But we do
tend to get … many people who join, who are just content to join and then have
their thinking done for them. This is one of the complaints of the atheists
because they get their thinking done for them by Dawkins [and] company but they
protest that we have seen you just blindly follow. So this is widespread in our
society even amongst people who otherwise might seem to be intelligent is that
we see things which are not according to the spiritual science and we just go
along with it. The worse thing is we don’t think about it all and we just
presume that it must be right.
ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE PROBLEMS USING SPIRITUAL SCIENCE
See I got into lot of trouble few years ago, when I gave a lecture
saying that what we shouldn’t think that what someone says is right because he
is a guru but he is a guru because what he says is right. So around the other
way. So that wasn’t a very popular analysis but actually it’s a fact. So if
there are problems we should see. E.g. One need not be an astrologer to see
problems in the world I means it’s a … it’s like you don’t have to be an
astrologer to say or ______ or a _________ to see that the world is heading for
lot of problems. There is always told 2012 many people in the world think this
the world is going to end or there is going to be cataclysmic changes in 2012.
Well, definitely there will be lot of problems in 2012, guess what? There are
lot of problems already in 2011 and there will be lot of problems in 2013 also
because the karmic deficit, you could say that about budget deficits, the
karmic deficit is beginning to take in. Human race is getting reactions for its
grossly exploitive and sinful activities. I mean the actions are always there
but they are becoming more pronounced now. One need not be an astrologer to see
someone deviating from Krishna Consciousness. So similarly you don’t have to be
astrologer to see that if someone even if they are renowned to be very advanced
devotee or very pure or very charismatic and very successful in preaching but
if they whatever, however much they may be presumed to be on an advanced level
which they … then if they start to do things which are not Krishna Conscious
then they are not going to remain in Krishna Consciousness right long. They
already are not properly situated. So you don’t have to be an astrologer to see
that.
WHY NOT LEAVE THIS ISSUE FOR THE BOARD ROOM LEVEL?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom level
until the end
Then our society generally … you may say well ya leave it, this
should be dealt with at the board room level. But generally it’s not dealt with
because I know … for some reason or the other. When leading devotees start to …
or if leading devotee start to deviate then it’s usually left until there is
some really gross manifestation before like at the last minute before anything
is said from the top level
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone or may be that
behind the scenes they are trying to do something. But usually what happens when
someone is a big shot in the movement then they won’t listen to anyone and they
are convinced that they are doing it right and all their followers are
adulating them and they are able to somehow or other justify what they are
doing by some perversion of the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness.
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions
And it may look that what they are doing is right because it seems
to be that they are getting very good results but anyway … we have seen it so
many times and we should know it by now, we have seen it so many times and
therefore I feel it’s my duty atleast to say something about this.
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
How do you react about this if you are asked by disciples of other
gurus? Well if you want to take the time and the trouble and have the patience
to do so you could explain to them in the way that I just explained, say that
you know Krishna Consciousness society … you have to take sometime and be
somewhat expert otherwise you can brush it off. You may see well…one thing is
it’s very unlikely that they are going to listen to you anyway because if they
haven’t been trained in the spiritual science from the beginning then to
suddenly try to educate them it might be quite difficult. It’s not impossible.
If they have read Srila Prabhupada’s books they should have some idea about
that. Like I said I am not going to campaign, may be I should be but doesn’t
seem to work. It’s just like you know you have to let fate take its course. And
you never know things might get better or whatever. Matters may not come to the
horrible conclusion.
MEANING OF MAINTAINING UNITY IN DIVERSITY
Maintaining unity with in our society is also important. It’s not
easy especially in kaliyuga, in the age of quarrel to maintain unity. Srila
Prabhupada famously wrote about maintaining unity in diversity that people have
different outlooks and approaches. This is much quoted. Of course Srila
Prabhupada explained that in another letter where he said that there may be
different devotees working different way but they should all unite following
the instructions of the spiritual master. It’s unity in diversity not unity in
perversity which means that you just do whatever you like and say Jai
Prabhupada! Now and then and as long as you remain a bonafide member of ISKCON
you can do and say any damn thing you like. But first it should be ascertained
what are the orders and desires of Srila Prabhupada. Generally we see that
people just start some program and without even consulting with others. Just
like I was telling about Mid day meals. Did anyone get any GBC permission to do
that? They just started doing that. That’s just one, there are many examples.
Atma yoga all this kind of thing. And without first consulting with the GBC
they just starts some program and then it just comes to be accepted as part of
the Krishna Consciousness movement. Whether it’s actually fulfilling Srila
Prabhupada’s desire that should be first discussed with others but …
WHY NOT LEAVE THIS ISSUE FOR THE BOARD ROOM LEVEL?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom level
until the end Then our society generally … you may say well ya leave it, this
should be dealt with at the board room level. But generally it’s not dealt with
because I know … for some reason or the other. When leading devotees start to …
or if leading devotee start to deviate then it’s usually left until there is
some really gross manifestation before like at the last minute before anything
is said from the top level
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone or may be that
behind the scenes they are trying to do something. But usually what happens
when someone is a big shot in the movement then they won’t listen to anyone and
they are convinced that they are doing it right and all their followers are
adulating them and they are able to somehow or other justify what they are
doing by some perversion of the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness.
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions And it may look
that what they are doing is right because it seems to be that they are getting
very good results but anyway … we have seen it so many times and we should know
it by now, we have seen it so many times and therefore I feel it’s my duty at
least to say something about this.
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
How do you react about this if you are asked by disciples of other
gurus? Well if you want to take the time and the trouble and have the patience
to do so you could explain to them in the way that I just explained, say that
you know Krishna Consciousness society … you have to take sometime and be
somewhat expert otherwise you can brush it off. You may see well…one thing is
it’s very unlikely that they are going to listen to you anyway because if they
haven’t been trained in the spiritual science from the beginning then to
suddenly try to educate them it might be quite difficult. It’s not impossible.
If they have read Srila Prabhupada’s books they should have some idea about
that. Like I said I am not going to campaign, maybe I should be but doesn’t
seem to work. It’s just like you know you have to let fate take its course. And
you never know things might get better or whatever. Matters may not come to the
horrible conclusion.
MEANING OF MAINTAINING UNITY IN DIVERSITY
Maintaining unity with in our society is also important. It’s not
easy especially in kaliyuga, in the age of quarrel to maintain unity. Srila
Prabhupada famously wrote about maintaining unity in diversity that people have
different outlooks and approaches. This is much quoted. Of course Srila
Prabhupada explained that in another letter where he said that there may be
different devotees working different way but they should all unite following the
instructions of the spiritual master. It’s unity in diversity not unity in
perversity which me
Answer: that you just do whatever you like and say Jai Prabhupada!
Now and then and as long as you remain a bonafide member of ISKCON you can do
and say any damn thing you like. But first it should be ascertained what are
the orders and desires of Srila Prabhupada. Generally, we see that people just
start some program and without even consulting with others. Just like I was
telling about Mid-day meals. Did anyone get any GBC permission to do that? They
just started doing that. That’s just one, there are many examples. Atma yoga
all this kind of thing. And without first consulting with the GBC they just start
some program and then it just comes to be accepted as part of the Krishna
Consciousness movement. Whether it’s actually fulfilling Srila Prabhupada’s
desire that should be first discussed with others but …
HOW SHOULD ALL OF YOU RESPOND?
So what should you do? How should they respond to reactions or
questions? I guess keeping the peace, what can I say, it’s like living a lie
you could say to some extent. What can you do? I mean if I can’t do anything
then what can you do?
1. LET TIME TAKE IT’S COURSE
So we just have to wait for time to take its course that’s all.
Time is also representation of Krishna. Sometimes time works against Krishna
Consciousness. E.g. persecution of Brahmanas. I mean there was a time when … it
happened several times in the history of the universe that the Brahmanas have
been killed or persecuted or not allowed to perform sacrifice and you may say,
“Well why does Krishna allows that?” People want to do yajnas to worship Visnu.
So why does Krishna allows them to be persecuted by demons? Just Krishna waits
for the demon’s offences to become pakka just like a boil to become ripe so
that it’s ready to pop and then He comes as Narasinghadeva, as Krishna Himself.
So we may say why is the Krishna Consciousness is going through all these
things? Well it may be for some time and then …
2. WE SHOULD JUST FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADA AND NOT INVENT ANYTHING
NEW
We can pray that at some point of time we will just come to the
point of remembering the very simple thing which Srila Prabhuapada always
taught us which is we just have to follow him. We don’t have to invent anything
new. Just follow him with firm faith that he is the empowered representative of
the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We don’t have to add anything or subtract
anything. Just follow that’s all. When different people have done their circus
acts of you know someone is a rock star and someone is a welfare worker, ISKCON
ancestors saint … what’s her name? You know mother Teresa. You know someone is
the Sun King [This was Bhagavan Das, zonal acharya]. We've has so many
different clown acts. Eventually we might just understand that being a guru in
ISKCON me
Answer: Simply to follow Srila Prabhupada, that’s all. Just do …
follow what he has told us to do and instruct others to do that also. So it’s
difficult to understand all of this. But we shouldn’t be discouraged. Whatever
anyone else may do, we can follow Srila Prabhupada’s simple instructions. They
are not difficult to follow.
3. UNDERSTAND THAT MAYA WILL ATTACK ISKCON
We should think or understand that it should be expected that maya
will attack ISKCON because ISKCON is the movement that is meant for defeating
maya and establishing Krishna Consciousness in the world. 9
Ex Play by Girish Ghosh There is that one play by one Girish Ghosh which
Prabhupada had translated into English from Bengali and the devotees used to
perform that. Still in Mayapur the Bengali devotees they sometimes, they
perform that. And it shows Kali, the personality of Kali how he received when
Caitanya Mahaprabhu came and how the personality of Kali was so much disturbed.
It’s a good play. We should get that in Hindi and other languages also.
Prabhupada approved it. Even some … one devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, “Well
how can we perform this play? It’s just written by some Girish Ghosh, he is not
a pure devotee.” Prabhupada said, “Well it’s a good play. Why not?” So it was
very effective and they used to perform that in New York and people come and
pay to see it and they would appreciate it very much. Maya will attack ISKCON
leaders especially So we can expect that maya and her agents such as the
personality of Kali will attack this movement and especially we can expect that
she will attack the leaders because if you get one leader then you get so many
followers all at once.
4. DO NOT THINK BADLY ABOUT THE LEADERS BUT UNDERSTAND IF THERE IS
ANYTHING WRONG
But anyway anyone who has come to a position of leadership in
Krishna Consciousness we can understand that they are great personalities. We
shouldn’t think badly of them but at the same time we should understand that if
they are doing something which is not in the line of Krishna Consciousness then
something is wrong, something is seriously wrong.
5. EITHER EXPLAIN IT TO OTHERS OR PACIFY THEM
So we could attend to explain this to others or otherwise we could
just pacify them and say that “Well there is an issue. Ya but let’s see what
happens.” You could say something like that. But it seems that no one wants to
make it an issue. Rather than discuss all these things so … alright let it
remain like that. I guess I have done my duty.
ISSUE OF RADHANATH MAHARAJA PLAYING BLUES Someone sent me an email
in which “So and so swami is playing a blues composition with a western band. I
find this depressing and discouraging for those who want to follow Prabhupada
and our acaryas.” Ya naturally it can be discouraging. You look up to people
and then they do things that disappoints. Just like children like to look up to
their parents then if they see their parents acting in a bad way they become
disappointed. “How can this be accepted?” Well you don’t have to accept it.
“And how did those who want to please Prabhupada and his sincere followers take
this?” Well just understand according to this what I am telling you.
JOURNEY HOME ISSUES
And another question about this “I come across newer devotees who
are more attracted to reading such and such a book, autobiography instead of
Prabhupada’s books. This happened to me and I ended up discrediting that book
and telling devotee to avoid such books and instead read Prabhupada’s book.
First, I have not read it, nor do I intend to, nor do I have the time but I
have seen some excerpts in which so and so swami claims to receive the Hare
Krishna mantra from the river Ganges before he met Srila Prabhupada. This looks
very strange and sounds like self aggrandizement. Do you think it is wrong to
openly discredit such a works in your devotees?”
JOURNEY HOME WILL NOT GIVE PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF KRISHNA
CONSCIOUSNESS
Actually it’s not an issue but what happens is people come newly
and they are given this book, which I say is an act of violence, to give people
this book. They should give people Prabhupada’s books. If they get this book
first they are going to be … it’s going to be very difficult for them to have a
proper understanding of Krishna Consciousness either. He gets started in the
wrong way but on the other hand what can we do.
HOW TO STOP IT?
1. Inform local temples to promote Prabhupada’s books I would take
it up with the local ISKCON authorities and tell them that look we should
promote Srila Prabhupada’s books.
2. Tell them to read Prabhupada’s biography or you could tell them
if you like to read biographies read Prabhupada’s biography. It’s a lot more
Krishna Conscious. But you know what happens people come new and then there is
this whole hype going on and they get carried away and new people how much they
can understand philosophy.
3. Show people difference in quality between JH and SP’s books.
You can may be tell them, “Ok that’s very good. But if you actually want to
understand what Krishna Consciousness is and get instructions and then read
Prabhupada’s books.” And you could may be read a little bit with them and just
show them what is the difference in quality. My experience of reading Srila
Prabhupada’s books I mean I remember when I first started reading Prabhupada’s
books… then and now also even after so many years I was just astounded by the
quality of Prabhupada’s books. This is something … I read so many books by so
many intelligent people, so many insights and religious books and scriptures,
translation of scriptures but reading Prabhupada’s books was just really a
revelation. Very clear that Srila Prabhupada is a person in touch with reality,
actual reality. He is not speaking from this plane at all. He is completely
different from anything else. Every word is just full of spiritual meaning. It
doesn’t appeal to the mind, to the senses, the e.g ego, or even the mundane
intelligence, completely from the spiritual platform. So you could just sit
down and read … especially I often mention that first verse of Srimad
Bhagavatam that just that one verse … of course it’s a long verse but there is
so much in there. That one verse of Srimad Bhagvatam has got more actual
spiritual substance then all the Bible, Koran and Buddhist books and even all
the Upanisads, and everything put together and then you read verse 2 and … the
first three verses of the Bhagavatam are just … actually the first two verses
especially … The third verse can be especially appreciated by very advanced
devotees but the first two verses, they are just revelatory. So you could try
doing that but don’t expect to have too much luck.
4. Make proper policy to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books. You
could say to the local ISKCON authorities that they should … just you could
appraise them of your concerns about this and then some policy could be made
that we distribute Prabhupada’s books. Actually as I said before Prabhupada
himself didn’t say that we should only distribute his books but some temples
like to do that because it makes it easy because then you don’t have to sort
out all the good books from the not so good books written by others apart from
Prabhupada. The problem with that is that some of them are very good and should
be distributed while some of them are not at all good and shouldn’t be
distributed. But if you make such a distinction then out of sentiment some
people get upset. And then you get some temples where you can’t even find
Prabhupada’s books for sale. There are all kind of other books for sale, even
books by non-devotees, there are karmi translations of sastra, all kind of
strange books. And time to … or may be its not time, may be you have to wait
for the time to offer ISKCON back to Prabhupada.
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SRILA BHAKTIVINOD THAKURA?
1. IT WAS NOT MEANT FOR MASS DISTRIBUTION
Just to finish this “I have heard that Bhaktivinod Thakura wrote
an autobiography of his early years. I have read it online.” Well that was
never meant for mass distribution. He himself wrote that it’s just my … It’s
like the Vedas, they were never meant for writing down and being printed. Sruti
the original Vedas are only meant for oral transmission. So something they are
not meant for wide distribution … So that autobiography of Bhaktivinid Thakur
was specifically meant for his one son who requested it, Lalita Prasad.
12
2. AUTOBIOGRAPHIES SHOULD BE THERE IF IT SERVE CAUSE OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS
About autobiographies and biographies of devotees, should
they be, should they not be? They may be if it serves the cause of Krishna
Consciousness. That’s all, if people are benefitted by that.
3. JOURNEY HOME IS NOT SERVING CAUSE OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS
In particular one under discussion. I don’t think that people are
at all benefitted by it. They might be carried away on the waves of mundane
sentiments but as far as Krishna Consciousness is concerned which begins with
distinguishing spirit from matter, there is nothing in there whatsoever to
help. CAN AN ACARYA FALL DOWN? So a related question – “Can an acarya fall
down?” Well one point to understand and this is not … I am not just trying to
_____ the issue here.
USAGE OF TERM ACARYA IN DIFFERENT WAYS
This is not equivocating is that the term acarya is used in
different ways.
1. Acarya could mean on the level of Prabhupada In the very
bE.g.inning of his _____ on Caitanya Caritamrita, Srila Prabhupada refers to an
acarya in the true sense of the term. So acarya can mean on the level of
Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Ramanujacarya, can also mean someone who
has two or three students who he teaches. It can’t mean he is teaching them
dancing or something which is not directly Krishna Conscious. An acharya on the
level of Prabhupada do not fall down So obviously devotees on the level of
Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati they don’t fall down. Reference for a
guru falling down We do have quote in Mahabharata, quoted in Srila Prabhupada’s
books, guror apy avaliptasya käryäkäryam ajänataù utpatha-pratipannasya
parityägo vidhéyate. Even if one is a guru, the most respectable position but
if he is not properly situated, if he is hopelessly addicted to sense
gratification. He was properly situated but now isn’t properly situated,
doesn’t know how to instruct properly, he should be fully given up. Now this
was spoken by Bhisma to Parasurama, his guru, when Pasarsurama said, “Hey you
come, fight with me” and Bhisma said, “Damn it I am going to fight with you.”
So you may say, “Well Parasurama he wasn’t the spiritual guru, he taught the
science of weapons. But that same verse is quoted by Jiva Goswami in his
sandarbhas in relation to spiritual guru and Prabhupada quotes it in that
context also. So yes it is possible but then again we should see sastras. What
is that? Quote on even if devotee falls, he does not become a karmi na vai jano
jätu kathaïcanävrajen mukunda-sevy anyavad aìga saàsåtim smaran
mukundäìghry-upagühanaà punar vihätum icchen na rasa-graho janaù That Narada
says to Vysasa that a devotee doesn’t fall down, he doesn’t become like a
karmi. Even if he falls, he is still a devotee.
2. One can act as an acharya by following instructions of previous
acaryas And Srila Prabhupada said that one can act as an acarya by following
the instructions of previous acaryas. E.g.. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructing
others to be guru Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself said, yäre dekha, täre
kaha ‘kåñëa’-upadeça ämära äjïäya guru haïä tära’ ei deça Who did he say this
to? He would say this, “Whoever you meet, instruct them in the science of
Krishna Consciousness, in this way become a guru and deliver the land.” He said
this to whoever He met. So He just meet people, infuse them in Krishna
Consciousness and go on and tell them, “Now you be a guru on My order.” Even if
someone not mahabhagavata can become guru by following mahabhagavatas And
Prabhupada often quoted this. So they may not be fully qualified or trained but
there is such a need for gurus or people to instruct in the science of Krishna
that even if someone who is not qualified on the level of mahabhagavata, he may
instruct others by following the instructions of the mahabhagavata.
14 E.g. Even if the leader is killed, fight goes on So it’s a fight,
in fight some people will be killed. Prabhupada gave that example … actually
from Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati, he said, some people will be killed but still
the fight has to go on. Even some of the leaders of the troops but still the
fight has to go on. So we should all understand that just like you might be
fighting and the leader of your platoon, he gets killed but still there is the
general, you have to follow him so the leader of the platoon, he has to take
orders from the general. So like that. To the degree one follows Prabhupada to
that extent one is guru The gurus in ISKCON should be understood as they are
followers of Prabhupada and as much as they follow Prabhupada they are
qualified to be guru and if we don’t follow Prabhupada then we are not
qualified to be guru that’s all. If they fall away it’s because Krishna didn’t
think them fit to represent Prabhupada any more. So if we think that we are
independently powerful then that’s maya. Prabhupada himself said, “I am just
doing what my guru told me. That’s all”. It’s simple matter. You just have to
follow. So don’t be discouraged. You can go on. Others may fall away but you
can go on. Others will fall away, you can expect that.
HOW TO DEAL WITH HRTVIKVADIS LIKE TIM LEE? UNDERSTANDING OF
HRTVIKS
Now just one other point, the one who asked this question said
that he got a mail from Tim Lee, Tim Lee that’s his name. He was initiated by
Prabhupada as Puranjana Dasa. So he is very dedicated promoter of the
hrtvikvada which is the idea that only Prabhupada could initiate, Prabhupada
could never have meant that anyone else should initiate after him because how
could anyone fall down. That’s his idea. So now we may think that well let me
try and work everything out here what’s going on. But again there is a
spiritual science. It’s not just by one’s intelligence one can understand
Krishna. One of Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s most important instructions is asat sanga
ei vaisnava acara, to give up bad association.
PERCEPTION OF TIM LEE ABOUT ISKCON
So Tim Lee no doubt is from his own perspective very sincere about
what he is doing. He is very dedicated to what he is doing. No doubt, sincere
it’s like you know sincere thief… Prabhupada… sincere atheist, honest thief. So
he can’t see any good in anything in ISKCON. He thinks from his perspective,
everything in ISKCON is bad and his duty is to warn everyone that ISKCON is a
dangerous cult which promotes pedophilia (?) and black marketeering and so many
other things. It’s a sex cult according to him … which is not true, which is
fanatical.
ADVISE ON DEALING WITH SUCH PEOPLE
So my advice, if you want to take it, is don’t associate with him,
don’t read his stuff. You can’t get Krishna Consciousness by floating around on
the internet and just looking up everything that’s there. Find saintly
association, it is available in ISKCON and stick with it. And don’t try to
understand everything by your own mind also. Intelligence has to be exercised
but one of the means to exercise the intelligence is to know that we can’t
understand everything with our intelligence. We can’t examine everything in the
world and then come to a conclusion. That’s not possible because even if you
examine everything in the world, by the time you finish doing that there will
be some other thing. So you will never come to an end. At some point one has to
make a leap of faith. And if one is sincere, Krishna will help him. Ok that’s
all I want to say for now unless any of you have any questions about this.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
HOW TO ANSWER SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT ISKCON?
Q1. If any person comes and say this is also in Krishna
Consciousness…
Ans. Even common people may say that’s true. Accept and explain
them the nature of big organization When you are distributing books some people
may say, “Well this is going in ISKCON that is going on in ISKCON” and you can
say, “Ya” You can tell them, “Ya there are some bad things. It’s in a big
organization you can expect that there will be some bad things. Not everyone
who joins will be completely sincere but that doesn’t mean that the whole
organization is bad. E.g. Indian going to America and committing crime It’s
just like someone from India may go to America and may commit a crime. So would
you judge from that that everyone in India is a criminal or every Indian who goes
to America is a criminal? Is that a reasonable conclusion to draw? You have to
see the overall activities. High level of corruption has entered ISKCON Ya
there is a lot of what should not be within ISKCON. But that doesn’t mean that
the whole purpose of the organization is wrong, the whole society is corrupted.
Actually in some ways I would say that a high level of corruption has entered
our movement. This is a kind of thing that Tim Lee and company like to quote
out of context. But more at the philosophical level then the … there is also at
the behavioral level. But again we can’t say it’s all bad. Lot of good
things happening in ISKCON Lot of people are chanting Hare Krishna, there is
lot of ratha yatras going around, lot of Prabhupada’s books are being distributed,
these are all good things. E.g. Preaching in Gujarat You can see here. Just
going around with me in the last few days and we are going around Gujarat,
right different places and so many people are taking up Krishna Consciousness
in a good spirit, feeling spiritual enlivenment by doing that. We can’t say
that’s all false. We are not cheating them. We are not traveling around place
to place to cheat people. We are only speaking the message of Bhagavad Gita
which is given to us by Prabhupada, right? We are distributing Prabhupada’s
books, right? Giving them prasadam… these are not bad things right? Atleast you
can judge for yourself what you are part of this little group here in a small
town in Gujarat. It’s all selflessly for the sake of serving Prabhupada and
Krishna, is it not? You are getting training in spiritual practices, spiritual
philosophy according to guru, sadhu and sastra. So you can tell people, “Ya”,
you can say, “Ya there are some bad things.” But that’s not the whole purpose
of the movement or that everyone is bad. Tell them about me Sometime they talk
about big leaders they are just exploiting you and making a comfortable life.
Well you can tell them that you know a big leader and I am not taking your
money, I am not living … Well I guess it’s comfortable compared to the people
living in jhopad patti, just over there, slightly comfortable you could say but
certainly not luxurious living. All ISKCON leaders are working very hard to
spread Krishna Consciousness So atleast one thing I will say that they are all
working very hard. I don’t see any of the leaders in ISKCON simply exploiting
people; I don’t see that at all. They are all working hard to spread Krishna
Consciousness. And if they are corrupt then Krishna will look after them, maya
will ... But I see all the leaders they are working hard. E.g. H.H. Jayapataka
Maharaja Jayapataka Maharaja, for years people were telling him you got to rest
more, sleep more, he wouldn’t and eventually he got this severe stroke and he
is paralyzed and still he is going on traveling all over the world and
preaching. I mean what more? Anyone would say that alright now if he retires
it’s alright, let him just sit but he won’t, he is addicted to preaching. So I
don’t see that’s a …They don’t have any blame. No benefit in associating with
hrtvikvadis Just to see all bad that is not a beneficial attitude, it doesn’t
help anyone. That’s why Tim Lee and hrtvikvadis and company … what they say
it’s not all untrue, they may be exaggerated but it’s not all untrue but it may
not help us to hear it from persons who by associating with them, I don’t see
anyone ever benefited by associating with them, may be they are trying to save
people from associating with people like me, terrible gurus of our movement.
Anyway you have to choose.
WHY NOT SIT TOGETHER AND WORK IT ALL OUT?
Q2. Maharaja do you think it is a better idea if this particular
leader in question and yourself and some senior sannyasis they sit together and
… Ans. Why don’t we all sit down together and work it all out? Well there was
an article in Back to Godhead many years ago by Drutakarma prabhu. This must
have been in the 80s. One should limit one’s speculation about the future
Situation in 80s During the 80s, pretty much everyone in the western world was sure
that it’s just a matter of time between the befall Nato powers … you know Nato
is? Me
Answer: America, Britain, France, the western powers. They go to
war with the Soviet blocks specifically the USSR. It’s going to be big Nuclear
war and there will be mass destruction. Some of our devotees in England, they
were running a successful business selling, making nuclear shelters and all
this … Even one of our gurus who is no longer with us made spent (?) lots of
money making nuclear shelters with canned food and all pretty much everyone was
sure (?) and those people … some people were saying that no I don’t … they
would go and see some people, “You can buy these things to help you survive
after the nuclear blast.” They said, “Forget it. When the bomb drops, I just
want to be right underneath it.” And there were films made. I saw both, one was
made in America, it’s called, “The Day After.” All our devotees saw it. I went
to see it with Prabhuvishnu Swami actually before I took sannyasa. It’s called
“The Day After” and it showed like what would happen if the Nuclear bombs drop
in, what would it be like afterward and then in Britain they made one also
because they thought that “The Day After” was too optimistic and they showed
more like what it really be like and it would be really miserable. Anyway I am
getting on digression. Just goes to show that what you think will happen …
Illusion regarding the influence news will put on people in the future I was
just reading one of the earliest BTGs, it was 67 or 68 and in the editorial he
was talking about now in the modern age we have news from all over the world
and that’s going to force people to be honest and he was convinced that the
world is going to change because the news we can’t hide and people can’t be
corrupt. But what happened was that certain people took over the control of all
the news channel and everything so the news became just another means of
propaganda. So it’s interesting that people think that it’s going to happen but
it doesn’t happen like what they think. So that’s why it’s better to limit our
speculation about the future to saying that definitely birth, death, old age
and disease is going to be … anyway coming back to the point article of
Drutkarma prabhu Why not American President & Head of communist party
come together and settle things? Drutakarma wrote an article for Back To
Godhead saying that why don’t Roney and Leoned … that me Ronald Reagan, the
President of America and Leonid Brezhnev, the head of the communist party in
Russia … why don’t they just don’t get together and sit down and talk together
and sort everything out and everything will be ok? That did happened actually
after _____ and then there came _____________ and ______________ and then there
came the famous … what’s that guy with a black dot on his head? Oh! Come on…
it’s famous name. He had the one who had cut up the USSR. Come on… you must
know the famous leader of USSR who chopped it all up into pieces. [This is
Mikhail Gorbachev] Anyway somehow or other I forgot his name. I remember all
the less significant ones, Russian guy. They gave him a noble prize. Noble
prize is also just a bunch of propaganda. So anyway they did get together and
Reagan famously called the USSR ‘The Evil Empire’ Anyway the USSR all broke up.
Things are not so easy to settle by coming together and talking So anyway
Drutakarma, he gave the conclusion that well it’s not so easy that you can just
talk it out because there are deeper forces of work and they are not just
political forces. There is the force of time, there is the force of karma. The
big leaders they think they are in control but they are not in control. They
are all controlled, there are bigger forces then ourselves. Big leaders are
convinced that what they are doing is alright So why don’t we all get together
and sort it out? Well like I said that often when someone becomes a big lead as
… you know they can’t hear anyone what they have to say. They are convinced
that what they are doing in right and I also mentioned in my previous lecture
about this that I tried speaking, may be I am not the most diplomatic person, I
tried speaking to previous leader about some of his strange things but it
didn’t change his mind at all and though he agreed under pressure to do certain
things directed by the situation, he didn’t and then he left this world. GBC is
thinking about doing something Why don’t we get together? Ya Well ya it will be
good, lets see if something can be done but it’s … I am in touch with one GBC
member about this who says he is going to … atleast he is thinking about doing
something. So they are considering what to do. So let’s see if anything
happens. It’s very difficult to deal with all these things because people you
know they have their own power base and this and that. So it should be the easy
solution but it’s not so easy. People come up with their own reasoning Just
like you see, I don’t get involved in all these email discussions about
different issues. Just like Basu Ghosh he gets into these email discussions and
he quotes Prabhupada line by line and on different issues he says, “So how can
you go against this thing?” But people do. They come up with their own
reasoning. Well if Prabhupada was here, now he would have done this, he would
have done that, this, that, the other and quote some obscure sastras which no
one even heard of, no acarya in recent times has ever implemented. So what can
we do? So you go on distributing Prabhupada’s books and read Prabhupada’s books
and preach there and people will be benefitted. Q3._______________ Not very
clearly audible
Answer:Why do they follow their acaryas? Well that’s what they are
supposed to do.
WHY DO PEOPLE DEVIATE?
Q3 continued. ____________________
Answer: Why did they get side tracked? Well it’s you know ask
them. Why, why, why? Is anyone in maya? Maya is very strong It’s not that just
by walking in the door of ISKCON that you become free from maya. It’s not that
by taking sannyasa you become free from maya. It’s not that by taking up the
role of a guru one becomes free from maya. Maya never sleeps. She is always
active, she is very powerful. One should be afraid of maya Once Srila
Prabhupada said that his disciples they are not afraid enough of maya. We
always have this tendency to think that we are more advanced then we are. ‘You
know I can preach to young girls, there is no problem’ that was the end of his
brahmchari life that was the end of his sannyasa. ‘I can associate with
mayavadis, I am purifying.’ Well let’s see. Then you become a mayavadi. If you
associate with mayavadis, talk like a mayavadi, dress like a mayavadi then what
are you? A bird that swims in the water, ‘Quack! Quack!’ makes a sound like
that, walks on land in a wobbling kind of manner, has webbed feet, what
you call? It’s a duck. So if someone associates with mayavadis, talks like a
mayavadi, doesn’t dress like a Vaisnava, he look like a mayavadi then what you
call? Do not compromise with mayavada Hare Krishna! Ok go out, distributing
books means fighting with mayavada. There are so many quotes from Prabhupada
saying he wants to defeat mayavada. I am going to post one I know. Everyday I
post a quote from Prabhupada. So one of the many quotes from Prabhupada, ‘Don’t
make any compromise with mayavada.’ Mayavada is worse than Buddhism Prabhupada
said, ‘Mayavada is worse then atheism, it’s covered atheism, worse then
Buddhism.’ In Buddhism they deny any spiritual reality but in mayavada,
pracchannaà bauddham ucyate, it’s covered Buddhsim. They say that it’s
spiritual but it has … what they call spiritual as no name, form, qualities,
pastimes, abode, associates, so it’s worse. What is that Caitanya Mahaprabhu
said? veda nä mäniyä bauddha haya ta’ nästika vedäçraya nästikya-väda
bauddhake adhika (CC Madhya 6.168) Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that Buddhists are
called nastiks or atheists because they don’t accept the Vedas but the
mayavadis, they are worst then the Buddhists because they theoretically accept
the Vedas but they preach the same thing so they are worse. Hare Krishna!
Questions and Answers
HOW SHOULD ALL OF YOU RESPOND?
So what should you do? How should they respond to reactions or
questions? I guess keeping the peace, what can I say, it’s like living a lie
you could say to some extent. What can you do? I mean, if I can’t do anything
then what can you do?
LET TIME TAKE IT’S COURSE
So we just have to wait
for time to take it’s course that’s all. Time is also representation of Krishna.
Sometimes time works against Krishna Consciousness. E.g. persecution of
brahmanas I mean there was a time when …
it happened several times in the history of the universe that the Brahmanas
have been killed or persecuted or not allowed to perform sacrifice and you may
say, “Well why does Krishna allows that?” People want to do yajnas to worship
Visnu. So why does Krishna allows them to be persecuted by demons? Just Krishna
waits for the demon’s offences to become pakka just like a boil to become ripe
so that it’s ready to pop and then He comes as Narasinghadeva, as Krishna
Himself. So we may say why is the Krishna Consciousness is going through all
these things? Well it may be for sometime and then …
2. WE SHOULD JUST FOLLOW
SRILA PRABHUPADA AND NOT INVENT ANYTHING NEW
We can pray that at some point of time we will
just come to the point of remembering the very simple thing which Srila Prabhuapada
always taught us which is we just have to follow him. We don’t have to invent
anything new. Just follow him with firm faith that he is the empowered
representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We don’t have to add anything
or subtract anything. Just follow that’s all. When different people have done
their circus acts of you know someone is a rock star and someone is a welfare
worker, ISKCON ancestors saint … what’s her name? You know mother Teresa. You
know someone is the Sun King [This was Bhagavan Das, zonal acharya].
We've has so many different clown acts. Eventually we might just understand
that being a guru in ISKCON means simply to follow Srila Prabhupada, that’s
all. Just do … follow what he has told us to do and instruct others to do that
also. So it’s difficult to understand all of this. But we shouldn’t be
discouraged. Whatever anyone else may do, we can follow Srila Prabhupada’s
simple instructions. They are not difficult to follow.
3. UNDERSTAND THAT MAYA
WILL ATTACK ISKCON We should think or understand that it should be expected
that maya will attack ISKCON because ISKCON is the movement that is meant for
defeating maya and establishing Krishna Consciousness in the world.
9 E.g. Play by
Girish Ghosh There is that one play by one Girish Ghosh which Prabhupada had
translated into English from Bengali and the devotees used to perform that.
Still in Mayapur the Bengali devotees they sometimes, they perform that. And it
shows Kali, the personality of Kali how he received when Caitanya Mahaprabhu
came and how the personality of Kali was so much disturbed. It’s a good play.
We should get that in Hindi and other languages also. Prabhupada approved it. Even
some … one devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, “Well how can we perform this play?
It’s just written by some Girish Ghosh, he is not a pure devotee.” Prabhupada
said, “Well it’s a good play. Why not?” So it was very effective and they used
to perform that in New York and people come and pay to see it and they would
appreciate it very much. Maya will attack ISKCON leaders especially So we can
expect that maya and her agents such as the personality of Kali will attack
this movement and especially we can expect that she will attack the leaders
because if you get one leader then you get so many followers all at once.
4. DO NOT THINK BADLY
ABOUT THE LEADERS BUT UNDERSTAND IF THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG But anyway anyone
who has come to a position of leadership in Krishna Consciousness we can
understand that they are great personalities. We shouldn’t think badly of them
but at the same time we should understand that if they are doing something
which is not in the line of Krishna Consciousness then something is wrong,
something is seriously wrong. 5. EITHER EXPLAIN IT TO OTHERS OR PACIFY THEM So
we could attend to explain this to others or otherwise we could just pacify
them and say that “Well there is an issue. Ya but let’s see what happens.” You
could say something like that. But it seems that no one wants to make it an
issue. Rather than discuss all these things so … allright let it remain like
that. I guess I have done my duty.
ISSUE OF RADHANATH
MAHARAJA PLAYING BLUES MUSIC ON A HARMONICA
Someone sent me an email
in which “So and so” swami is playing a blues composition with a western band.
I find this depressing and discouraging for those who want to follow Prabhupada
and our acaryas.” Ya naturally it can be discouraging. You look up to people and
then they do things that disappoints. Just like children like to look up to
their parents then if they see their parents acting in a bad way they become
disappointed. “How can this be accepted?” Well you don’t have to accept it.
“And how did those who want to please Prabhupada and his sincere followers take
this?” Well just understand according to this what I am telling you.
10 JOURNEY HOME
ISSUES
And another question
about this “I come across newer devotees who are more attracted to reading such
and such a book, autobiography instead of Prabhupada’s books. This happened to
me and I ended up discrediting that book and telling devotee to avoid such
books and instead read Prabhupada’s book. First, I have not read it, nor do I
intend to, nor do I have the time but I have seen some excerpts in which so and
so swami claims to receive the Hare Krishna mantra from the river Ganges before
he met Srila Prabhupada. This looks very strange and sounds like self
aggrandizement. Do you think it is wrong to openly discredit such a works in
your devotees?”
JOURNEY HOME WILL NOT
GIVE PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS
Actually it’s not an issue but what happens is
people come newly and they are given this book, which I say is an act of
violence, to give people this book. They should give people Prabhupada’s books.
If they get this book first they are going to be … it’s going to be very difficult
for them to have a proper understanding of Krishna Consciousness either. He
gets started in the wrong way but on the other hand what can we do.
HOW TO STOP IT? 1.
Inform local temples to promote Prabhupada’s books I would take it up with the
local ISKCON authorities and tell them that look we should promote Srila
Prabhupada’s books. 2. Tell them to read Prabhupada’s biography Or you could
tell them if you like to read biographies read Prabhupada’s biography. It’s a lot
more Krishna Conscious. But you know what happens people come new and then
there is this whole hype going on and they get carried away and new people how
much they can understand philosophy. 3. Show people difference in quality
between JH and SP’s books You can may be tell them, “Ok that’s very good. But
if you actually want to understand what is Krishna Consciousness and get
instructions and then read Prabhupada’s books.” And you could may be read a
little bit with them and just show them what is the difference in quality.
11 My experience of
reading Srila Prabhupada’s books I mean I remember when I first started reading
Prabhupada’s books… then and now also even after so many years I was just
astounded by the quality of Prabhupada’s books. This is something … I read so
many books by so many intelligent people, so many insights and religious books
and scriptures, translation of scriptures but reading Prabhupada’s books was
just really a revelation. Very clear that Srila Prabhupada is a person in touch
with reality, actual reality. He is not speaking from this plane at all. He is
completely different from anything else. Every word is just full of spiritual
meaning. It doesn’t appeal to the mind, to the senses, the e.g ego, or even the
mundane intelligence, completely from the spiritual platform. So you could just
sit down and read … especially I often mention that first verse of Srimad
Bhagavatam that just that one verse … ofcourse it’s a long verse but there is
so much in there. That one verse of Srimad Bhagvatam has got more actual
spiritual substance then all the Bible, Koran and Buddhist books and even all
the Upanisads, and everything put together and then you read verse 2 and … the
first three verses of the Bhagavatam are just … actually the first two verses
especially … The third verse can be especially appreciated by very advanced devotees
but the first two verses, they are just revelatory. So you could try doing that
but don’t expect to have too much luck.
4. Make proper policy to
distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books You could say to the local ISKCON
authorities that they should … just you could appraise them of your concerns
about this and then some policy could be made that we distribute Prabhupada’s
books. Actually as I said before Prabhupada himself didn’t say that we should only
distribute his books but some temples like to do that because it makes it easy
because then you don’t have to sort out all the good books from the not so good
books written by others apart from Prabhupada. The problem with that is that
some of them are very good and should be distributed while some of them are not
at all good and shouldn’t be distributed. But if you make such a distinction
then out of sentiment some people get upset. And then you get some temples where
you can’t even find Prabhupada’s books for sale. There are all kind of other
books for sale, even books by non-devotees, there are karmi translations of
sastra, all kind of strange books. And time to … or may be its not time, may be
you have to wait for the time to offer ISKCON back to Prabhupada.
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY
OF SRILA BHAKTIVINOD THAKURA?
1. IT WAS NOT MEANT FOR
MASS DISTRIBUTION
Just to finish this “I
have heard that Bhaktivinod Thakura wrote an autobiography of his early years.
I have read it online.” Well that was never meant for mass distribution. He
himself wrote that it’s just my … It’s like the Vedas, they were never meant
for writing down and being printed. Sruti the original Vedas are only meant for
oral transmission. So something they are not meant for wide distribution … So
that autobiography of Bhaktivinid Thakur was specifically meant for his one son
who requested it, Lalita Prasad.
12 2.
AUTOBIOGRAPHIES SHOULD BE THERE IF IT SERVE CAUSE OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS About
autobiographies and biographies of devotees, should they be, should they not
be? They may be if it serves the cause of Krishna Consciousness. That’s all, if
people are benefitted by that.
3. JOURNEY HOME IS NOT
SERVING CAUSE OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS In particular one under discussion. I
don’t think that people are at all benefitted by it. They might be carried away
on the waves of mundane sentiments but as far as Krishna Consciousness is
concerned which begins with distinguishing spirit from matter, there is nothing
in there whatsoever to help.
CAN AN ACARYA FALL DOWN?
So a related question – “Can an acarya fall down?” Well one point to understand
and this is not … I am not just trying to _____ the issue here.
USAGE OF TERM ACARYA IN
DIFFERENT WAYS
This is not equivocating
is that the term acarya is used in different ways. 1. Acarya could mean on the
level of Prabhupada In the very bE.g.inning of his _____ on Caitanya
Caritamrita, Srila Prabhupada refers to an acarya in the true sense of the
term. So acarya can mean on the level of Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati,
Ramanujacarya, can also mean someone who has two or three students who he
teaches. It can’t mean he is teaching them dancing or something which is not
directly Krishna Conscious. An acarya on the level of Prabhupada do not fall
down So obviously devotees on the level of Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati they don’t fall down. Reference for a guru falling down We do have
quote in Mahabharata, quoted in Srila Prabhupada’s books, guror apy avaliptasya
käryäkäryam ajänataù utpatha-pratipannasya parityägo vidhéyate 13 Even
if one is a guru, the most respectable position but if he is not properly
situated, if he is hopelessly addicted to sense gratification. He was properly
situated but now isn’t properly situated, doesn’t know how to instruct
properly, he should be fully given up. Now this was spoken by Bhisma to
Parasurama, his guru, when Pasarsurama said, “Hey you come, fight with me” and
Bhisma said, “Damn it I am going to fight with you.” So you may say, “Well Parasurama
he wan’t the spiritual guru, he taught the science of weapons. But that same
verse is quoted by Jiva Goswami in his sandarbhas in relation to spiritual guru
and Prabhupada quotes it in that context also. So yes it is possible but then
again we should see sastras. What is that? Quote on even if devotee falls, he
does not become a karmi na vai jano jätu kathaïcanävrajen mukunda-sevy anyavad
aìga saàsåtim smaran mukundäìghry-upagühanaà punar vihätum icchen na rasa-graho
janaù That Narada says to Vysasa that a devotee doesn’t fall down, he doesn’t
become like a karmi. Even if he falls, he is still a devotee.
2. One can act as an
acarya by following instructions of previous acaryas And Srila Prabhupada said
that one can act as an acarya by following the instructions of previous
acaryas. E.g.. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructing others to be guru Just like
Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself said, yäre dekha, täre kaha ‘kåñëa’-upadeça ämära
äjïäya guru haïä tära’ ei deça Who did he say this to? He would say this,
“Whoever you meet, instruct them in the science of Krishna Consciousness, in
this way become a guru and deliver the land.” He said this to whoever He met.
So He just meet people, infuse them in Krishna Consciousness and go on and tell
them, “Now you be a guru on My order.” Even if someone not mahabhagavata can
become guru by following mahabhagavatas and Prabhupada often quoted this. So
they may not be fully qualified or trained but there is such a need for gurus
or people to instruct in the science of Krishna that even if someone who is not
qualified on the level of mahabhagavata, he may instruct others by following
the instructions of the mahabhagavata.
14 E.g. Even if
the leader is killed, fight goes on So it’s a fight, in fight some people will
be killed. Prabhupada gave that example … actually from Bhakti Siddhanta
Sarasvati, he said, some people will be killed but still the fight has to go
on. Even some of the leaders of the troops but still the fight has to go on. So
we should all understand that just like you might be fighting and the leader of
your platoon, he gets killed but still there is the general, you have to follow
him so the leader of the platoon, he has to take orders from the general. So
like that. To the degree one follows Prabhupada to that extent one is guru The
gurus in ISKCON should be understood as they are followers of Prabhupada and as
much as they follow Prabhupada they are qualified to be guru and if we don’t
follow Prabhupada then we are not qualified to be guru that’s all. If they fall
away it’s because Krishna didn’t think them fit to represent Prabhupada any
more. So if we think that we are independently powerful then that’s maya.
Prabhupada himself said, “I am just doing what my guru told me. That’s all”
It’s simple matter. You just have to follow. So don’t be discouraged. You can
go on. Others may fall away but you can go on. Others will fall away, you can
expect that.
HOW TO DEAL WITH
HRTVIKVADIS LIKE TIM LEE? UNDERSTANDING OF HRTVIKS
Now just one other
point, the one who asked this question said that he got a mail from Tim Lee,
Tim Lee that’s his name. He was initiated by Prabhupada as Puranjana Dasa. So
he is very dedicated promoter of the hrtvikvada which is the idea that only
Prabhupada could initiate, Prabhupada could never have meant that anyone else
should initiate after him because how could anyone fall down. That’s his idea.
So now we may think that well let me try and work everything out here what’s
going on. But again there is a spiritual science. It’s not just by one’s
intelligence one can understand Krishna. One of Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s most
important instructions is asat sanga tyaga ei vaisnava acara, to give up bad
association.
PERCEPTION OF TIM LEE
ABOUT ISKCON
So Tim Lee no doubt is
from his own perspective very sincere about what he is doing. He is very
dedicated to what he is doing. No doubt, sincere it’s like you know sincere
thief… Prabhupada… sincere atheist, honest thief. So he can’t see any good in
anything in ISKCON. He thinks from his perspective, everything in ISKCON is bad
and his duty is to warn everyone that ISKCON is a dangerous cult which promotes
pedophilia (?) and black marketeering and so many other things. It’s a sex cult
according to him … which is not true, which is fanatical.
15 ADVISE ON DEALING
WITH SUCH PEOPLE So my advice, if you want to take it, is don’t associate with
him, don’t read his stuff. You can’t get Krishna Consciousness by floating
around on the internet and just looking up everything that’s there. Find
saintly association, it is available in ISKCON and stick with it. And don’t try
to understand everything by your own mind also. Intelligence has to be
exercised but one of the means to exercise the intelligence is to know that we
can’t understand everything with our intelligence. We can’t examine everything
in the world and then come to a conclusion. That’s not possible because even if
you examine everything in the world, by the time you finish doing that there
will be some other thing. So you will never come to an end. At some point one
has to make a leap of faith. And if one is sincere, Krishna will help him. Ok
that’s all I want to say for now unless any of you have any questions about
this.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS HOW
TO ANSWER SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT ISKCON?
Q1. If any person comes
and say this is also in Krishna Consciousness… Ans. Even common people may say
that’s true. Accept and explain them the nature of big organization When you
are distributing books some people may say, “Well this is going in ISKCON that
is going on in ISKCON” and you can say, “Ya” You can tell them, “Ya there are
some bad things. It’s in a big organization you can expect that there will be
some bad things. Not everyone who joins will be completely sincere but that doesn’t
mean that the whole organization is bad. E.g. Indian going to America and
committing crime It’s just like someone from India may go to America and may
commit a crime. So would you judge from that that everyone in India is a
criminal or every Indian who goes to America is a criminal? Is that a
reasonable conclusion to draw? You have to see the overall activities. High
level of corruption has entered ISKCON Ya there is a lot of what should not be
with in ISKCON. But that doesn’t mean that the whole purpose of the
organization is wrong, the whole society is corrupted. Actually in some ways I would
say that a high level of corruption has entered our movement. This is a kind of
thing that Tim Lee and company like to quote out of context. But more at the philosophical
level then the … there is also at the behavioral level. But again we can’t say
it’s all bad. 16 Lot of good
things happening in ISKCON Lot of people are chanting Hare Krishna, there is
lot of ratha yatras going around, lot of Prabhupada’s books are being
distributed, these are all good things. E.g.. Preaching in Gujarat You can see
here. Just going around with me in the last few days and we are going around Gujarat,
right different places and so many people are taking up Krishna Consciousness
in a good spirit, feeling spiritual enlivenment by doing that. We can’t say
that’s all false. We are not cheating them. We are not traveling around place
to place to cheat people. We are only speaking the message of Bhagavad Gita
which is given to us by Prabhupada, right? We are distributing Prabhupada’s
books, right? Giving them prasadam… these are not bad things right? Atleast you
can judge for yourself what you are part of this little group here in a small town
in Gujarat. It’s all selflessly for the sake of serving Prabhupada and Krishna,
is it not? You are getting training in spiritual practices, spiritual
philosophy according to guru, sadhu and sastra. So you can tell people, “Ya”,
you can say, “Ya there are some bad things.” But that’s not the whole purpose
of the movement or that everyone is bad. Tell them about me Sometime they talk
about big leaders they are just exploiting you and making a comfortable life.
Well you can tell them that you know a big leader and I am not taking your
money, I am not living … Well I guess it’s comfortable compared to the people
living in jhopad patti, just over there, slightly comfortable you could say but
certainly not luxurious living. All ISKCON leaders are working very hard to
spread Krishna Consciousness So atleast one thing I will say that they are all
working very hard. I don’t see any of the leaders in ISKCON simply exploiting
people, I don’t see that at all. They are all working hard to spread Krishna
Consciousness. And if they are corrupt then Krishna will look after them, maya
will ... But I see all the leaders they are working hard. E.g. HH Jayapataka
Maharaja Jayapataka Maharaja, for years people were telling him you got to rest
more, sleep more, he wouldn’t and eventually he got this severe stroke and he is
paralyzed and still he is going on traveling all over the world and preaching.
I mean what more? Anyone would say that allright now if he retires it’s
allright, let him just sit but he won’t, he is addicted to preaching. So I don’t
see that’s a …They don’t have any blame. No benefit in associating with
hrtvikvadis Just to see all bad that is not a beneficial attitude, it doesn’t
help anyone. That’s why Tim Lee and hrtvikvadis and company … what they say
it’s not all untrue, they may be exaggerated but it’s not all untrue but it may
not help us to hear it from persons who by associating with them, I don’t see
anyone ever benefited by associating with them, may be they are trying to save people from associating
with people like me, terrible gurus of our movement. Anyway you have to choose.
WHY NOT SIT TOGETHER AND
WORK IT ALL OUT?
Q2. Maharaja do you
think it is a better idea if this particular leader in question and yourself and
some senior sannyasis they sit together and … Ans. Why don’t we all sit down
together and work it all out? Well there was an article in Back to Godhead many
years ago by Drutakarma prabhu. This must have been in the 80s. One should
limit one’s speculation about the future Situation in 80s During the 80s,
pretty much everyone in the western world was sure that it’s just a matter of
time between the befall Nato powers … you know Nato is? Means America, Britain,
France, the western powers. They go to war with the Soviet blocks specifically
the USSR. It’s going to be big Nuclear war and there will be mass destruction.
Some of our devotees in England, they were running a successful business
selling, making nuclear shelters and all this … Even one of our gurus who is no
longer with us made spent (?) lots of money making nuclear shelters with canned
food and all pretty much everyone was sure (?) and those people … some people
were saying that no I don’t … they would go and see some people, “You can buy
these things to help you survive after the nuclear blast.” They said, “Forget
it. When the bomb drops, I just want to be right underneath it.” And there were
films made. I saw both, one was made in America, it’s called, “The Day After.”
All our devotees saw it. I went to see it with Prabhuvishnu Swami actually
before I took sannyasa. It’s called “The Day After” and it showed like what
would happen if the Nuclear bombs drop in, what would it be like afterward and
then in Britain they made one also because they thought that “The Day After”
was too optimistic and they showed more like what it really be like and it
would be really miserable. Anyway I am getting on digression. Just goes to show
that what you think will happen … Illusion regarding the influence news will
put on people in the future I was just reading one of the earliest BTGs, it was
67 or 68 and in the editorial he was talking about now in the modern age we
have news from all over the world and that’s going to force people to be honest
and he was convinced that the world is going to change because the news we
can’t hide and people can’t be corrupt. But what happened was that certain people
took over the control of all the news channel and everything so the news became
just another means of propaganda. So it’s interesting that people think that
it’s going to happen but it doesn’t happen like what they think. So that’s why
it’s better to limit our speculation about the future to saying that definitely
birth, death, old age and disease is going to be … anyway coming back to the point
article of Drutkarma prabhu Why not
American President & Head of communist party come together and settle things?
Drutakarma wrote an article for Back To Godhead saying that why don’t Roney and
Leonid … that means Ronald Reagan, the President of America and Leonid Brezhnev
the head of the communist party in Russia … why don’t they just don’t get
together and sit down and talk together and sort everything out and everything
will be ok? That did happened actually after _____ and then there came
_____________ and ______________ and then there came the famous … what’s that
guy with a black dot on his head? Oh! Come on… it’s famous name. He had the one
who had cut up the USSR. Come on… you must know the famous leader of USSR who
chopped it all up into pieces. [This is Mikhail Gorbachev] Anyway somehow or other
I forgot his name. I remember all the less significant ones, Russian guy. They
gave him a noble prize. Noble prize is also just a bunch of propaganda. So
anyway they did get together and Reagan famously called the USSR ‘The Evil
Empire’ Anyway the USSR all broke up. Things are not so easy to settle by
coming together and talking So anyway Drutakarma, he gave the conclusion that
well it’s not so easy that you can just talk it out because there are deeper
forces of work and they are not just political forces. There is the force of
time, there is the force of karma. The big leaders they think they are in
control but they are not in control. They are all controlled, there are bigger
forces then ourselves. Big leaders are convinced that what they are doing is
alright So why don’t we all get together and sort it out? Well like I said that
often when someone becomes a big lead as … you know they can’t hear anyone what
they have to say. They are convinced that what they are doing in right and I
also mentioned in my previous lecture about this that I tried speaking, may be
I am not the most diplomatic person, I tried speaking to previous leader about
some of his strange things but it didn’t change his mind at all and though he
agreed under pressure to do certain things directed by the situation, he didn’t
and then he left this world. GBC is thinking about doing something Why don’t we
get together? Ya Well ya it will be good, lets see if something can be done but
it’s … I am in touch with one GBC member about this who says he is going to …
atleast he is thinking about doing something. So they are considering what to
do. So let’s see if anything happens. It’s very difficult to deal with all
these things because people you know they have their own power base and this
and that. So it should be the easy solution but it’s not so easy. People come
up with their own reasoning Just like you see, I don’t get involved in all
these email discussions about different issues. Just like Vasu Ghosh he gets
into these email discussions and he quotes Prabhupada line by line and on
different issues he says, “So how can you go against this thing?” But people
do. They come up with their own reasoning. Well if Prabhupada was here, now he
would have done this, he would have done that, this, that, the other and quote
some obscure sastras which no one even heard of, no acarya in recent times has
ever implemented. So what can we do? So you go on distributing Prabhupada’s
books and read Prabhupada’s books and preach there and people will be benefitted.
Q3._______________ Not very clearly audible Ans Why do they follow their
acaryas? Well that’s what they are supposed to do. WHY DO PEOPLE DEVIATE? Q3
continued. ____________________ Ans Why did they get side tracked? Well it’s
you know ask them. Why, why, why? Is anyone in maya? Maya is very strong It’s
not that just by walking in the door of ISKCON that you become free from maya.
It’s not that by taking sannyasa you become free from maya. It’s not that by
taking up the role of a guru one becomes free from maya. Maya never sleeps. She
is always active, she is very powerful. One should be afraid of maya Once Srila
Prabhupada said that his disciples they are not afraid enough of maya. We
always have this tendency to think that we are more advanced then we are. ‘You
know I can preach to young girls, there is no problem’ that was the end of his
brahmchari life that was the end of his sannyasa. ‘I can associate with
mayavadis, I am purifying.’ Well let’s see. Then you become a mayavadi. If you
associate with mayavadis, talk like a mayavadi, dress like a mayavadi then what
are you? A bird that swims in the water, ‘Quack! Quack!’ makes a sound like
that, walks on land in a wobbling kind of manner, has webbed feet, what you
call? It’s a duck. So if someone associates with mayavadis, talks like a
mayavadi, doesn’t dress like a Vaisnava, he look like a mayavadi then what you
call? Do not compromise with mayavada Hare Krishna! Ok go out, distributing
books means fighting with mayavada. There are so many quotes from Prabhupada
saying he wants to defeat mayavada. I am going to post one I know. Everyday I
post a quote from Prabhupada. So one of the many quotes from Prabhupada, ‘Don’t
make any compromise with mayavada.’ Mayavada is worse than Buddhism Prabhupada
said, ‘Mayavada is worse then atheism, it’s covered atheism, worse then Buddhism.’
In Buddhism they deny any spiritual reality but in mayavada, pracchannaà bauddham
ucyate, it’s covered Buddhsim. They say that it’s spiritual but it has … what
they call spiritual as no name, form, qualities, pastimes, abode, associates,
so it’s worse. What is that Caitanya Mahaprabhu said?
veda nä mäniyä bauddha haya ta’ nästika
vedäçraya nästikya-väda bauddhake adhika
(CC Madhya 6.168)
Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that Buddhists are called nastiks or
atheists because they don’t accept the Vedas but the mayavadis, they are worst
then the Buddhists because they theoretically accept the Vedas but they preach
the same thing so they are worse. Hare Krishna!
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