Here is what i wrote in one place.
Regarding Tulsi and Jahnavi Dasi
Yes I have never observed anything bad in Kripamoya pr. neither would it ever be my business nor is it normally any non-senior’s business to correct such an advanced devotee like him. But what can we do? This mata is openly singing all over the whole world like this. It's non vedic. AND it’s preaching a non-vedic life. It is not about what the mata is doing in her own house. That would not be any one’s worry since it is something between them and Krishna. When we preach a bogus philosophy we get 100 times the reaction, the scriptures say. This mata, her popular sister and their circle are to be partially blamed. And this is not at all our place to speak. It is their controller's place to speak BUT where is that controller? Husband and father? Both encourage such behavior in the matajis. Either with their silence or with their words.
If you ask her, “mataji, should girls openly sing in front of many men like you two sing?” I doubt if she will ever say, “No mataji should sing like us. We are very sorry. We know that it is against the scriptures but it is our conditioning.” Such a thing we will never hear from the two sister matajis. So I speak even if it is a bit bitter or personal. Considering my fault of being attached to the miserable duty of protecting the scriptures…may hari guru vaishnavas forgive me.
It is very misfortunate that the force of circumstance has now caused for us to assail [as in their ideology] the same men that we once adored. The dilemma is katham bhismam aham sankhe dronam ca madhusudana isubihi pratiyotsyami pujar arhova ari sudanda.
Regarding Tulsi and Jahnavi Dasi
Yes I have never observed anything bad in Kripamoya pr. neither would it ever be my business nor is it normally any non-senior’s business to correct such an advanced devotee like him. But what can we do? This mata is openly singing all over the whole world like this. It's non vedic. AND it’s preaching a non-vedic life. It is not about what the mata is doing in her own house. That would not be any one’s worry since it is something between them and Krishna. When we preach a bogus philosophy we get 100 times the reaction, the scriptures say. This mata, her popular sister and their circle are to be partially blamed. And this is not at all our place to speak. It is their controller's place to speak BUT where is that controller? Husband and father? Both encourage such behavior in the matajis. Either with their silence or with their words.
If you ask her, “mataji, should girls openly sing in front of many men like you two sing?” I doubt if she will ever say, “No mataji should sing like us. We are very sorry. We know that it is against the scriptures but it is our conditioning.” Such a thing we will never hear from the two sister matajis. So I speak even if it is a bit bitter or personal. Considering my fault of being attached to the miserable duty of protecting the scriptures…may hari guru vaishnavas forgive me.
It is very misfortunate that the force of circumstance has now caused for us to assail [as in their ideology] the same men that we once adored. The dilemma is katham bhismam aham sankhe dronam ca madhusudana isubihi pratiyotsyami pujar arhova ari sudanda.
Hare Krishna!
ReplyDeleteI have just noticed this comment by someone who is obviously a Hindu and doesn't understand ISKCON's purpose.
If the above person is not advanced in spiritual life then why make such neophyte statements out in the open? He talks about bogus philosophy, so what is bogus about chanting Hare Krishna in public? Male or female it doesn't matter and incidentally neither girls are ever alone.
Preaching is according to time and circumstance and rather than pick on two very nice devotees this person should be out there saving the fallen souls. Apart from that Srila Prabhupada brought boys and girls together in the temple and he allowed women to chant the first line of the gayatri mantra. So why doesn't the above person find fault in that since it isn't in the scriptures?
The above person then writes "So I speak even if it is a bit bitter or personal. Considering my fault of being attached to the miserable duty of protecting the scriptures". What utter nonsense!
This is the problem when a person is not Krishna conscious, he sees everything through mundane vision and being so close and familiar with ISKCON devotees he will find faults.
If a person accepts another as being spiritually advanced then they should approach them in a humble state of mind and enquire from them as to what is truth and what is not.
This is a case of someone who knows a little but thinks they know a lot, even more than devotees far far above them in station.
So, what can (we) you do? Apologise immediately for your ridiculous letter!
Sincerely,
Haridasa Thakura Dasa Acbsp.
Haribol,
ReplyDeleteThank you for coming out to our blog. Good that you have shown us how much you understand Prabhupada’s mood being his disciple. Now we know a lot about your mood. Thanks a lot for your honesty. Points will be given, if not for your understanding of vedic culture then at least for your honesty.
An elaboration of this reply will be found if you study Women:Masters or Mothers book.
Here is an analogy:
When engaging the enemy at the height of a battle the commanding officer of a military base sometimes orders all the men and women serving at all posts in the base to pick up a gun and go fight at the front line. All cooks, doctors, nurses, clerks, drivers, electricians, janitors, etc are expected to leave their duties and engage the enemy. So when the war is subsided the commanding officer orders all men and women to return back to their posts. Since all those posts are needed for the day to day functioning of the military base. Even if it is for one day that the janitors, cooks, drivers, clerks, etc are away from their posts then there would be a major managerial crisis in the base.
a) Similarly, when Prabhupada was here we had a definite emergency and apat-dharma (emergency dharma) protocols had to be initiated.
b) If you were to look at the mentions of Varnasrama in Prabhupada's instructions from the 1960's to the end of his sojourn, you will find that they increase towards the end.
c) Prabhupada said that 50 % of his work is not finished. Varna Ashrama will be 50% of his work. Varna ashrama has certain values. These values help foster the segregation of the genders. This helps all to follow the principle of no-illicit sex.
The Prabhupada room in Radhadesh (Castle Petite Somme, Belgium) is the 'kissing room' for the inmates. This is the direct by product of this leftist free gender mixing ideological infection that you are carrying from your hippie days.
A woman is supposed to be shy and chaste. How is shyness being preserved if she is in the center of the hall, with 500 men looking at her? How is chastity being preserved if she gets a hundred friends requests on FBook?
So would you want your daughter to be put on display like that?
Perhaps if the women of your household read our words and be influenced to not throw themselves out there and consequence of which they will be regarded as respectable ladies thus be happily married to respectable devotees, perhaps then you will think that the letter is not to ridiculous.
"Preaching is according to time and circumstance and rather than pick on two very nice devotees this person should be out there saving the fallen souls."
Do the genders and their roles change? Women are impregnating men now in the 21st century? Men are emotional and are women the logical ones?
"Male or female it doesn't matter and incidentally neither girls are ever alone." Male or female doesn't matter? This nonsense taken to a very high degree.
"so what is bogus about chanting Hare Krishna in public?"
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing bogus about chanting hare krishna. However, ‘who chants where’ is also to be considered. Women chant among women. This way chastity and shyness are maintained.
You seem to dislike Bhakti Vikas Maharaj's book WMM?
http://iskcontheology.blogspot.com/p/mahadevi-dasi-anti-bvks.html
Your name appears here saying this, "Haridasa Thakura Dasa Acbsp So ladies, I support you. When are you going bring out a book that gives the other side of the story? It's a long time coming......."
As far as apologies are concerned, it is you who should be apologizing, not to us but to Prabhupada for having misrepresented the culture of purity that he gave us.
So this reply of yours is a total lack of understanding of the masculine and feminine principles which is shown in the 3rd Canto. And everybody is here talking like Caitanya Caritamrita or something. This is the 3rd Canto. Social issues...Can't even figure out varnaashrama. So if you can’t figure out varnaashrama so ‘position of women in varnaashrama’ is a detail.
"This is the problem when a person is not Krishna conscious" So first let us be civilized and then let us judge as to who is krishna conscious and who is hippie conscious. Let Krsna be the judge of someone's Krishna consciousness. Being an appreciator of Vaiyasaki, who is a controversial person as far as his sensual escapades are concerned, is no proof of your Krishna consciousness rather is proof of your lack of strictness in sensual austerity which is a standard followed by even the cultured persons who are atheists. If you appreciate Vaiyasaki, the sensualist, then you will appreciate any body no matter habits that person has.
sincerely desiring to protect your grand daughters, etc from your mentality,
mdb