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Dairy Krishna
July 17, 2015 Dairy Krishna2015-11-01T12:36:49+00:00Articles, Dairy, Featured Articles
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By His Holiness Danavir Goswami
(Vaiñëava Society Vol. 12)
In this paper, we’ll address concerns coming from devotees of Lord Krishna, vegans and others regarding the use of commercial, organic and devotional dairy products. We propose a four point plan/solution as follows:
1) Resist the trend to boycott milk products
2) Establish a comprehensive dairy certification system which includes total non-violent production (i.e. no slaughtering of cows or bulls)
3) Revive sustainable farms using successful ISKCON farm models
4) Encourage temples, restaurants, devotees and friends of Krishna to purchase dairy products from ISKCON farms or, if unavailable, from other high-principled farms
These measures should, if implemented, provide short-term and long-term benefits such as:
A) a decrease of violence inflicted upon cows and bulls
B) a decrease of dairy products adulteration
C) an increase of dairy products available from protected and loved cows
Best Use of a Bad Bargain
To begin, let us consider the history of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness’ relationship with cows and dairy products over the past 42 years. When His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (aka Srila Prabhupada) entered the USA in 1965, he found no dairy farms where cows and bulls were not cruelly treated and ultimately slaughtered for commercial purposes. He was already well aware of the West’s exploitation of cows and bulls as shown by what he wrote before he first sailed the Atlantic:
The next symptom of the age of Kali is the distressed condition of the cow. Milking the cow means drawing the principles of religion in a liquid form. The great åñis and munis [sages] would live only on milk. Çréla Çukadeva Gosvämé would go to a householder while he [the householder] was milking a cow, and he [Çréla Çukadeva Gosvämé] would simply take a little quantity of it for subsistence. Even fifty years ago, no one would deprive a sädhu [saintly person] of a quart or two of milk, and every householder would give milk like water. For a follower of Vedic principles, it is the duty of every householder to have cows and bulls as household paraphernalia, not only for drinking milk, but also for deriving religious principles.
The cow’s milk is required for the sacrificial fire, and by performing sacrifices the householder can be happy. The cow’s calf not only is beautiful to look at, but also gives satisfaction to the cow, and so she delivers as much milk as possible. But in the Kali-yuga, the calves are separated from the cows as early as possible for purposes which may not be mentioned in these pages of Çrémad-Bhägavatam. The cow stands with tears in her eyes, the çüdra milkman draws milk from the cow artificially, and when there is no milk the cow is sent to be slaughtered. These greatly sinful acts are responsible for all the troubles in present society. People do not know what they are doing in the name of economic development. The influence of Kali will keep them in the darkness of ignorance. Despite all endeavors for peace and prosperity, they must try to see the cows and the bulls happy in all respects. Foolish people do not know how one earns happiness by making the cows and bulls happy, but it is a fact by the law of nature. (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.17.3 Purport)
The word “tears” indicates the cows’ unhappiness and fear, the word “artificially,” designates forcible extraction methods used, and that which could not be mentioned in the “pages of Srimad-Bhagavatam” point to calves used for veal, and so on. He was well acquainted with how the tractor had replaced the bull in plowing fields since 1910. The dairy industry had begun injecting cows with growth hormones and other antibiotics since the 1930s.
“In 1937 scientists observed that milk yield increased when BST [Bovine Somatotropin] was administered to lactating cows. From the ’30s through the early ’80s, knowledge on chemical structure, function and activity of ST [Somatotropin] from several animal species increased.” (Wikipedia)
Strong pesticides had been used on agriculture fields since the 1940’s and cows were becoming confined to pens instead of pastures. No one understood the implications of man’s torturous inventions more than Srila Prabhupada who wrote about the link between sending millions of cows to the slaughterhouse and launching millions of young soldiers to fight and die on battlefields throughout the world. He knew that all American bovines would be slaughtered as soon as their fattening and milking periods had expired.
He knew it was not possible to get pure commercial milk. Why only pure milk, it was impossible to get pure water, pure air, pure vegetables, pure fruits or pure grains anymore.
So long we are in the material platform, the goodness is liable to be adulterated. Just like we purchase milk from the market or anything. There is adulteration. Although there are so many laws by the government, “You cannot adulterate, you cannot do this, you cannot…,” but people, propensity is to adulterate. So you cannot get pure thing. The whole atmosphere is so polluted. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, October 1, 1972)
Yet with all the pollution and adulterations, his mission was to establish the Vedic civilization on the basis of cows and their milk products. Thus, like a swan takes milk from a milk-water solution, Srila Prabhupada utilized essential milk leaving aside the contaminated consciousness of the dairy industry.
Yajïa, the performance of sacrifice, is essential; to perform yajïa, clarified butter is absolutely necessary; and to get clarified butter, milk is necessary. Milk is produced when there are sufficient cows. (Srimad Bhagavatam 8.8.1, Purport)
It is most significant that to counteract cow slaughter he never refrained from using commercial dairy products for offering to the Lord, for his personal consumption nor for the eating of his movements’ followers.
Why did he do so?
Creating Intelligent People
He wanted to establish a civilization based on Lord Krsna, the cow and Vedic wisdom and to do that he would have to utilize whatever milk products were available in the market until his society could produce its own. There was simply no alternative to using cows’ milk for higher intellect and he knew that despite the adulterations found in modern milk the essential aspects of milk were retained.
The body can be maintained by any kind of foodstuff, but cow’s milk is particularly essential for developing the finer tissues of the human brain so that one can understand the intricacies of transcendental knowledge. (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.5.7, Purport)
He decided to “make the best use of a bad bargain” by using commercial dairy products on the basis of Cäëakya Paëòita’s maxim: viñäd apy amåtaà grähyam amedhyäd api käïcanam (take the nectar from the pot of poison or take gold from a filthy place). He appealed to the intelligence of his audience but in order for them to understand his subtle spiritual message, they would require fine brain tissues—rejecting commercial dairy products was not possible.
Srila Prabhupada wanted to create intelligent persons who could understand the philosophy of Krishna consciousness and convince others by logic and reason. In the vegetarian diet, milk plays an essential role by providing vitamin B12 (cobalamin). Most animals have micro-organisms in their stomachs that produce B12, but human beings do not. Their only natural sources of B12 are meat and milk. The body needs vitamin B12 to properly develop red blood cells. A deficiency can cause pernicious and megaloblastic anemia. For anyone trying to understand the subtleties of spiritual science, possibly the most important role of vitamin B12 is that it helps maintain proper functioning of the nervous system, including brain cells. Ninety percent of the B12 remains after pasteurization, and seventy percent remains after boiling from two to five minutes.
So if you get milk products, milk, then you can prepare so many preparations full of vitamins, which will nourish your brain. Dull brain cannot understand what is spiritual knowledge. Therefore, that Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote a book. Perhaps you know it. You Are What You Eat. If you keep your brain dull, then how you can understand? Because without becoming very intelligent man, one cannot understand Kåñëa consciousness. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritämåta, kåñëa yei bhaje sei baòa catura: “One who takes to Kåñëa consciousness seriously and perfectly, he must be very, very intelligent.” Dull brain cannot accept it. Bahünäà janmanäm ante jïänavän mäà prapadyate. So we have to make our brain very clean. And for that purpose you require to drink not very much, at least, one pound or half-pound milk daily. That is essential.(From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Hawaii, January 15, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada deemed that the best approach was powerful preaching of Krishna consciousness through literature and other media as well as demonstrating cow protection in rural farm communities. He said:
Just like we say “Don’t eat meat.” So actually, if all people become Kåñëa conscious and give up meat-eating, then the slaughterhouse will be closed. Automatically. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given inLos Angeles, June 20, 1972)
His strategy proved extraordinarily successful—the spreading Krishna consciousness movement has produced a sizable army of sincere pure Vaisnava devotee/preachers dedicated to the task of cow protection. In addition, as a side effect, the movement has influenced virtually millions to give up eating meat for good.
Health Issues
Some people criticized milk saying that it was unhealthy but Srila Prabhupada did not accept it. He knew that was a myth. In India, milk is usually boiled to kill the bacteria, and people drink the milk hot and sweetened with sugar. Prabhupäda taught devotees to drink milk “sipping hot”-so hot you have to sip it. Boiling the milk breaks down the protein so it is easier to digest. In America the milk is pasteurized but not boiled. It’s also homogenized, and people drink it cold. He said that cold milk loses its nutritional value. The theory of “lactose intolerance” may have some connection with these things.
Srila Prabhupada knew that according to the Äyur Veda, warm milk straight from the cow promotes strength and stimulates the digestion. Hot boiled milk alleviates mucus and won’t put fat on the body. It also helps calm the nerves. He drank a glass of hot milk every evening just before taking rest.
Less intelligent people underestimate the value of cow’s milk. Cow’s milk is also called gorasa, or the juice from the body of the cow. Milk is the most valuable form of gorasa, and from milk we can prepare many important and valuable foodstuffs for the upkeep of the human body. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Hawaii, January 15, 1974)
He knew that milk was full of vitamins and science confirms that it contains protein, carbohydrates, vitamins A, D, E, and K, calcium, niacin, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, riboflavin, and sodium, as well as other minerals. Each of these nutrients makes an important contribution to human health. Proteins, for example, are composed of amino acids, which build and maintain body tissues, fight off disease, transport oxygen in the blood, regulate blood sugar, aid in making the hormones that regulate our metabolism, and supply energy.
Calcium, also found abundantly in milk, is required for the blood to clot and for the heart to function normally. And it protects the teeth by neutralizing the cavity-forming acids in foods. Western science acknowledges that cow’s milk has been a used as a nutritious food source in human society for millennia.
The milk is produced by the cow, but it is not meant for the cow. It is meant for the human being. If you offer the milk, 30 pounds of milk, after milking the cow, and if you offer to the cow, it will refuse. It will refuse, “I don’t want it.” Give it dry grass? Oh, it will be very glad. So everything is organized by the nature… Natural foodstuff which is meant for human being, they are full of vitamins already there by nature’s law, by God’s wish. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in New York, May 23, 1966)
Another reason that Srila Prabhupada decided to make use of commercial dairy products was that man craves animal fat and blood.
Protection and grazing ground for the cows are among the essential needs for society and the welfare of people in general. The animal fat required for the human body can be well derived from cow’s milk. Cow’s milk is very important for human energy, and the economic development of society depends on sufficient food grains, sufficient milk, and sufficient transportation and distribution of these products. Lord Çré Kåñëa, by His personal example, taught us the importance of cow protection, which is meant not only for the Indian climate but for all human beings all over the universe. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Hawaii, January 15, 1974)
He knew that milk is actually the blood of the cow miraculously transformed into milk. The cow eats grass, the grass becomes blood then the blood becomes milk, which we can drink as it is or prepare it in many different ways. Srila Prabhupada knew that by using milk products, such as panir fried in ghee, which tasted similar to meat, the hearts of the non-devotees would change. He would use dairy products in prasadam to replace meat products in their diet.
It is a very good idea for people to come to our vegetarian restaurant and take so many nice things, especially the panir, fried cheese, and sandesh, kachori, rasagulla, samosa and in this way they will forget their meat-eating. If you make a soup of fried panir with asafoetida and ginger, this will replace lobster soup nonsense. Of course we are not interested in giving them vegetarian food; we are wanting to give them prasadam. Then gradually they will become devotees. (From a letter written by Srila Prabhupada to Tusta Krsna, 9 November, 1975)
Treasure from the Condemned
Although innocent cows used on factory farms were abused and butchered, Srila Prabhupada saw them as glorious mothers to man. As God’s representative in human society, it was his duty to engage the poor cows and other dairy employees, etc. in service to Krishna before their untimely deaths. If an innocent man condemned to death in a concentration camp wishes to present his only hidden treasure to Lord Krishna, the Lord’s servant will not refuse to offer it. Srila Prabhupada spoke of ajnata sukrti by which any soul who, even unknowingly or accidentally, renders some service to Krishna is greatly benefited and becomes elevated spiritually. The pitiable factory farm cows were like stranded devotees, without good association and Srila Prabhupada could not refuse to offer their milk and service attitude to Krsna. Why should their offerings be denied? Simply by Krsna’s drinking the witch’s poison milk, Putana was liberated back to Goloka in the spiritual world, then what to speak of the incarcerated cows who were giving their milk with no ill intent? Taking milk of cows that may later be slaughtered does not in any way condone cow-killing, and if they had the opportunity, devotees would close the slaughterhouses immediately.
Srila Prabhupada knew it was the duty of intelligent and religious people to offer milk to the Lord and accept the remnants as prasadam. Thousands of generations of respecting and protecting cows could not be erased by a relatively recent Western slaughterhouse craze.
Vegan and Vedic
The devotees of Krishna derive their philosophy and practice regarding cows and dairy products through the Vedic body of literature which has guided an enlightened society for a hundred thousand generations from the time Ramayana was written by Sri Valmiki Muni.
Veganism began in 1944 when vegetarians Elsie Shrigley and Donald Watson decided to found the UK Vegan Society in England hoping to help man and animals. They defined veganism as follows:
The word “veganism” denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude — as far as is possible and practical — all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Let us compare vegan and Vedic views regarding cows and dairy products.
Agreement Between Vedic Culture And Veganism
1) Cows and bulls should never be killed by humans.
2) Cows and bulls should never be mistreated by humans—including:
a. Injecting them with growth-promoting hormones such as steroids, estrogens, progestins, etc.
b. Cows should not be artificially impregnated for business.
c. Cows and bulls should not be subjected to poor living conditions.
d. Cows and bulls should not be fed unnatural diets including meat and fish by-products, etc.
3) Cows should not be divorced from their calves
In a factory farm, when the cow can’t give milk anymore, she is slaughtered for her meat. Also, the male calves born at the dairy are sent to the slaughterhouse very soon after birth. Both vegans and followers of Vedic culture share condemnation of such action.
Disagreement Between Vedic Culture And Veganism
1) Humans engagement and/or acceptance of services from cows and bulls.
2) The health of dairy products for humans.
3) Calf-exclusivity for drinking cows’ milk.
Let’s examine the differing views on these three issues.
1) Humans’ engagement and/or acceptance of services from cows and bulls.
Vegan view:
Animals should not have to work for humans and humans have no right to use animal products. Using dairy products is unnatural since no other animal except the human drinks the milk of another species. Appalled by the dairy industry’s collusion with the slaughterhouse, the vegan advocates shun the cow’s milk as well as her meat.
Vedic view:
All creatures (including animals, plants, insects, etc.) are meant to be actively employed in the service of the Lord with humans acting as chief organizers. The bull helps in the agricultural process of producing grain, etc., and thus in one sense the bull is the father of humankind, whereas the cow is the mother, for she supplies milk to human society. As soon as man stops working the bull and milking the cow he wants to kill them.
Discussion
A) Humans are unique in several ways:
they can offer sacrifices to Visnu meant for elevation of consciousness,
they can use their brains to understand philosophy aiming toward self-realization and what Sri Krsna thinks about cows’ milk.
they have the ability and carpal dexterity to milk a cow,
B) Non-human species cannot milk cows (for lack of proper hands) yet practically all species of quadrapeds plus many reptiles, fish, birds, insects, etc. will readily consume dairy products if it is supplied to them. Non-human species also do not till fields and grow food grains but that is not a good argument for humans to refrain from using food grains.
2) The health of dairy products for humans.
Vegan view:
Cow’s milk is simply unhealthy for human consumption. Some leading vegan websites go so far as to say that “milk is pus!” and that “beer is better than milk for humans,” etc.
Vedic view:
According to Vedic science, milk has been recognized and utilized as an extraordinary healthful human food for millions of years. Milk strengthens the entire human body and nourishes the finer brain tissues facilitating the understanding of higher spiritual principles.
If we really want to cultivate the human spirit in society we must have first-class intelligent men to guide the society, and to develop the finer tissues of our brains we must assimilate vitamin values from milk. Devotees worship Lord Çré Kåñëa by addressing Him as the well-wisher of the brähmaëas and the cows. The most intelligent class of men, who have perfectly attained knowledge in spiritual values, are called the brähmaëas. No society can improve in transcendental knowledge without the guidance of such first-class men, and no brain can assimilate the subtle form of knowledge without fine brain tissues. For such important brain tissues we require a sufficient quantity of milk and milk preparations. Ultimately, we need to protect the cow to derive the highest benefit from this important animal. The protection of cows, therefore, is not merely a religious sentiment but a means to secure the highest benefit for human society. (Light of the Bhagavata: verse 28)
Krishna drinks milk and eats milk products—it is part of His devotees’ diet. The Vedas say:
namo brahmaëya-deväya
go-brähmaëa-hitäya ca
jagad-dhitäya kåñëäya
govindäya namo namaù
“My Lord, You are the well-wisher of the cows and the brähmaëas, and You are the well-wisher of the entire human society and world.” (Viñëu Puräëa 1.19.65)
The world’s longest surviving culture is based on drinking milk, the most valuable food.
Discussion:
Neither chemically nor physiologically could milk be classified as pus. Pus is a thick whitish-yellow fluid which results from the accumulation of white blood cells, liquefied tissue and cellular debris and is commonly a site of infection. Pus has never been used by human society as a food source.
Although some persons prefer beer to milk, that does not make it healthier for the humans’ body, brain, mind and soul. The active principle of beer is a drug molecule (alcohol) distributed to all the organs and fluids of the consumer’s human body, but alcohol affects mostly the brain. Like other general anesthetics, alcohol is a central nervous system depressant.
Dr. Gary Wadler, a New York University School of Medicine professor summarizes the extremely well documented detrimental short-term effects of alcohol. Impairments are listed below:
Balance and steadiness
Reaction time
Fine and complex motor skills
Information processing
Boisterousness, unsteadiness, slurred speech
Nausea, vomiting, marked unsteadiness, drowsiness
Hangovers, the residual or “day-after” effect of alcoholic consumption, can result in symptoms of headaches, nausea, diarrhea, fatigue, dehydration, and body aches.
The chronic [long term] abuse of beer (alcohol) may cause numerous adverse health effects which include:
Chronic alteration of brain and nerve function
Weakening of heart muscle
Testicular shrinkage and male breast enlargement
Impotency
Elevated triglycerides
Fat deposits in the liver
Cirrhosis and liver failure
Blood-clotting abnormalities
Pancreatitis
Vitamin deficiencies
Chronic skin alterations
Death
To exalt beer over milk is quite irresponsible.
3) Cows’ milk exclusively for calves.
Vegan view:
The cow’s milk is meant only for her calf.
Vedic view:
The Vedas describe a natural relationship between God and the cows, and also between mankind and the cows. Cows’ milk is a divine arrangement to supply one of human society’s prime necessities. Lord Krsna personally emphasized the importance of cows’ milk for humanity by taking the occupation of a cowherd boy. The Bhagavad-gita ordains an occupation of cow protection for supplying milk products to humanity.
Discussion:
According to recent statistics, the average cow yields 19,576 pounds of milk per year. This converts to 7,118 liters per year or 19.5 liters (approximately 5 gallons) per day. For the first ten days after birth, a calf drinks only its mother’s milk. According to agricultural authorities, a calf needs to drink its mother’s milk equaling about 1/10 of its body weight. The average calf birth weight is about 82 pounds, thus the calf takes about 8.2 pounds of mother’s milk for the first 10 days. After ten days, the calf starts eating grass in addition to taking mother’s milk to its “full satisfaction.” According to ISKCON’s Minister of Agriculture for Europe, a very experienced, compassionate and savvy person, that “full satisfaction” translates to approximately one quarter of the mother cow’s daily output or approximately 5 liters per day. At Bhaktivedanta Manor Farm in the United Kingdom, calves are weaned from drinking milk after about six months. The leaders there estimate that the minimum average lactation period for Western breeds of cows is about 3.5 years after giving birth to a calf. If we use 19.5 liters per day as an average yield, it means that a cow gives about 12,460 liters over the 3.5 year lactation period for each calf she bears. Of that, (12,460 liters or 3,296 gallons), approximately 900 liters are drunk by the calf. This equals close to 7.2% of the mother’s total milk yield.
The remaining 92.8% of the cow’s yield is meant for human consumption which is why it has been practiced since time immemorial. The cow simply produces far more milk than her calf requires for health. On the other hand, mankind requires the milk products which provide all the necessary nutrients for its physical, mental and spiritual health.
Enter “Conditional Veganism”
In an attempt to reconcile both vegan and Vedic conclusions, a new ideology called “conditional veganism,” materialized in the 1990’s. This term was coined primarily by a former devotee who hailed from a punk-rock/vegan background but who later became estranged from Krishna consciousness. In essence, conditional veganism acknowledges that man should engage and accept services from cows and bulls, including cows’ milk which is intended for and is healthy for humanity. A conditional vegan agrees, at least theoretically, to accept dairy products produced from protected and loved cows, however, the conditional vegan registers a complaint against all the farm factory’s atrocities by boycotting commercial dairy products.
Conditional veganism asserts the following opinions:
Conditional vegan assertion #1: The Gita Proposes a Non-Dairy Diet.
Even in the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna says, “if one offers me fruit, vegetables, a flower or water…” That is a vegan diet!
Discussion:
On this subject, a purport to the Narada Bhakta Sutra 14 states:
The Lord clearly says that He will accept a flower, a fruit, a leaf, or a little water if they are offered to Him with devotional love. (One should note that the Supreme Lord accepts only foods from the vegetable kingdom, as well as milk products. “Water” includes milk and its products.)
In the verse referred to above, namely 9.26, Krsna says:
patraà puñpaà phalaà toyaà
yo me bhaktyä prayacchati
tad ahaà bhakty-upahåtam
açnämi prayatätmanaù
If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.
In addition to the word “toyam” indicating water, Srila Prabhupada includes milk within the “toyam” category as well. Here are a few instances:
So Krsna eats all these things—patram puspam phalam toyam—vegetables, liquid things, water, milk, and so many other things, grains.(From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Bombay, April 10, 1974)
And Kåñëa says, patraà puñpaà phalaà toyaà yo me bhaktyä prayacchati “A leaf, a flower, fruit and liquid, milk or water, all these things, within these categories, whatever a devotee offers Me in love and devotion, I eat.” (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Melbourne, June 25, 1974)
The exact meaning for the word toyaà according to the Technical Sanskrit to English Dictionary (© Robert L. Peck 2007) is “fluid” which is why Srila Prabhupada places milk in the category of toyam.
Besides this, Lord Krsna is famous as a cow milker and milk drinker. Therefore, it will be mistaken to use the Bhagavad-gita verse to support a non-dairy diet. We cannot take one part of the lesson and reject the other and that is why it is imperative to hear from the guru in studying the sastras.
Conditional vegan assertion #2: Veganism is the only Alternative for City-Dwellers.
For those who live far from farms and must buy milk from the store, it seems that abstaining from milk products is the only choice. A vegan diet is the only option for cow protection living in the city.
Discussion:
Devotees living in city centers of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness are basically trying to remove a thorn with a thorn. In other words, they are using modern technology to change modern technological society. Consequently, they sometimes have to compromise by drinking store-bought milk, but by their preaching in the cities, many people are becoming vegetarians, and therefore cows are being saved. If but one person is convinced to become a vegetarian by such preaching, many animals are saved each year. What if that person stays a vegetarian for the next thirty years? How many creatures are being saved? To be really effective, devotees need to situate themselves in the cities; otherwise, if tucked away in the country somewhere, the influence would be minimal. However, devotees do both—they’re in the cities and also in the country. And vegetarianism is just one benefit of ISKCON’s work, because if a person is Kåñëa conscious, he’s automatically going to be kind and gentle and possess all good qualities. Devotees are confident that the poor cows are greatly blessed when their milk is offered to the beautiful Deities in the temple.
If city-dwelling devotees, living in temples and in private homes, boycott commercial dairy products, it disregards the policy Srila Prabhupada himself established.
If you drink more milk and milk products, then your brain will be very sharp. You will understand things very nicely, correctly. Therefore milk is very important. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Johannesburg, October 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada tirelessly taught society to stop animal slaughter and beef-eating yet he never encouraged them to stop drinking milk or using dairy products. Unless the cows and bulls are engaged positively by humanity and until human society recognizes the authority of a cow-loving Supreme Being, so-called momentary gains soon turn toxic. Srila Prabhupada writes:
Nowadays, unqualified men have taken the presidential post. And although they may pose themselves as very religious, they are simply rascals. Why? Because under their noses thousands of cows are being killed, while they collect a good salary. Any leader who is at all religious should resign his post in protest if cow slaughter goes on under his rule. (Journey of Self Discovery 7.1)
Conditional vegan assertion #3: The atrocities of factory farming are too overwhelming to tolerate. Consuming commercial milk products supports a cruel industry of animal exploitation.
Discussion:
There are a growing number of organic farms today which do not use growth hormones and antibiotics on the cows and do not feed them meat products and do provide satisfactory living conditions for the cows. Consequently, several of the concerns voiced by conditional vegans are no longer unavoidable.
We will discuss alternatives to factory farming in the next sections.
Dairy Certification System
I propose that the construction of a comprehensive system for certification of all dairy products in North America would fulfill the following purposes:
1) To promote an awareness of the differences in purity and morality of dairy products and to rate them accordingly
2) To educate the consumer as to the ingredients within dairy products
3) To educate the consumer as to the treatment of the cows who provided the dairy products
4) To educate the consumer as to the methods employed in producing the dairy products
5) To stimulate a higher level of purity and morality in dairy products
6) To educate the consumer as to where he/she may purchase different levels of dairy products at what prices and availability
Although not complete, the Cornucopia Institute (http://cornucopia.org/index.php/dairy_brand_ratings/) presently lists 42 American farms as outstanding or excellent in supplying dairy products to nationwide and regional markets. The chart below shows the organic farms whose standards were rated the highest:
The top seven farms listed above scored perfect in all the categories of production used. A “Five Cow” rating is the best, “Four Cow” next best and so on down to One Cow” rating. The criteria for the rating are given below.
APPENDIX 3: DAIRY BUYER’S GUIDE.
ASSUMPTIONS/BASIS FOR RATINGS
Points Production Aspect
1. Market Area
2. Ownership Structure
100 Farmstead dairy (owned and operated by resident farm family)
90 Farmer-owned cooperative
80 Family-owned business with close ties/partnership with farmers
70 Corporate/investor owned with deep roots/ties with farmers
65 Stonyfield: unique governance policy with Hirshberg family
60 Investor-owned corporation
50 Investor-owned corporation with questionable track record
25 Any ownership with history as a “bad actor”
0 No answer
3. Milk Supply
100 Farmstead dairy
95 Farmstead dairy, buys additional milk from neighbors
90 Cooperative/small corporation/multiple farms (from own patrons)
85 50% or more from own patrons plus a highly rated supplier
70 Purchases some outside milk from highly rated suppliers
60 Purchases subcontracted out without direct control
50 Purchases some percentage of milk from “open market”
0–30 Purchases some percentage of milk from confinement dairies
(points depend on percentage)
0 No answer
4. Disclosure/Farm Contact Information for Verification
100 Full disclosure
0–90 Partial disclosure (points depend on number of questions fully answered)
5/6. Farm Certifier
Ratings (0–100) for certifiers are based on the history and integrity of the certifying organization
and its history of approving certification of farms that are suspected of creating/exploiting
loopholes in the current regulations.
CCOF California Certified Organic Farmers
COFA California Organic Farmers Association
GOA Global Organic Alliance
ICO Indiana Certified Organic
IDALS Iowa Dept of Agriculture and Land Stewardship
Integrity Certified International
MOSA Midwest Organic Service Association
The rating system shown above is impressive, yet as of this date, there appear to be almost no farms in North America which never send the cows or bulls to slaughter, with the exception of ISKCON farms. The problem is that the ISKCON farms are not producing a very large quantity of milk due to many reasons. If there is a demand for totally non-violent dairy products, which is likely, then ISKCON farms may charge the price they require to cover their expenses and/or expand the number of farms. Successful Krishna-conscious farm models from around the world that fully utilize bulls for tilling and other duties should be implemented. An expert predicts that very soon farms other than those of ISKCON, will also supply dairy products from cows that are never to be slaughtered nor have their offspring slaughtered. Interestingly enough, just yesterday at the Sunday feast, a devotee who maintains cows, told me that he knows of a commercial dairy farmer in Iowa that does not send his milking cows to slaughter after they have ceased giving milk. He allows them to live out their natural lifespan.
A complete dairy certification system including a special category for totally non-violent products would supply a consumer with everything knowable about all the dairy products offered in North America. The consumer would find out how much of the product is available, from what outlets, at what price, etc. This will encourage consumers to purchase the type of dairy product they wish and it will allow small dairies who may put forward higher quality dairy goods to sell them at a price which can sustain them.
We can imagine how an ISKCON farm community will respond when they have standing orders for their highest-rated totally non-violent dairy products at the price they request. Such farms will be able to expand their milk production and protect more cows, giving more quality milk to Krishna and the public. As consumers, and as role models to millions, we need to understand the power of our food choices.
In this way, a consumer who cannot tolerate to take dairy products from a company that abuses and slaughters the cows will have the means to find dairy products that meet his liking. Let’s fight fire with fire. This is a supply and demand market nation and we can now fulfill our demands.
Small and Large Scale Milk Production
One misconception existing today puts forward that cow protection and milk production should only be implemented on a small scale by individual families. While it is surely ideal that every family maintains a cow or two for their family’s dairy needs, or a farm community only supply enough for its immediate use, modern city-living makes it difficult to implement. Although some devotee experts correctly caution that using petroleum conveyances to transport dairy products long distances is impractical in the long run, however, at present it is functional. We can successfully use the current available arrangement of dairy transportation for the meantime and at the same time push forward with great enthusiasm in developing our own sustainable farms.
Srila Prabhupada advised Sumati Morarji and the Gujarati and Marwari business communities to organize cow protection on a large scale. Read the excerpt below to experience another facet of Srila Prabhupada’s genius for accomplishing the goal of replacing slaughterhouses:
I can suggest as you have asked me to give a thought to this problem, that Goseva, according to our Vedic injunction, is specially entrusted to the mercantile community. Of course, during the Hindu government in India, the kings were mostly Vaisnavas like Maharaja Pariksit, and he at once caught the Black man Kali who was attempting to kill a cow. But those days are no more. Neither there is a king like Maharaja Pariksit, nor the present government of India is inclined to give protection to the cows. But the mercantile community, specially the Gujaratis and the Marwaris are undoubtedly rich in India, and I do not know why such mercantile communities do not open large-scale dairy farms. That will certainly give actual protection to the cows. From Bhagavad-gita we understand that the Vaisya community is specially responsible for giving protection to the cows as much as the ksatriya kings are responsible for giving protection to the citizens of the state. As such, if you can organize—and I believe you can do so, because by Grace of Krishna, you are in good position amongst the mercantile community—big dairy farms with large pasturing grounds, then the problem of milk supply and cow protection will automatically be done. I do not know how much you will appreciate my this suggestion, but if you can do such organization, it will be a great service to the country and to the animals, and to this cause of Krishna Consciousness. If you be serious on this point then I can help you with all of my possible energies. (From a letter written by Srila Prabhupada to Sumati Morarjee —1969)
There is nothing wrong with vaisya businessmen organizing cow protection on a mega scale and turning a large profit from the milk. To a devotee in Canada, Srila Prabhupada confirmed that taking profit from selling home-grown food items was an acceptable means of acquiring funds.
“If you can support yourselves by selling certain of your crops grown there, why not?” (From a letter written by Srila Prabhupada: May 29, 1971)
The vaisyas can market the excess milk products, make money and organize more cow protection.
Vaiçya, they should be trained in three things, productive—kåñi-go-rakñya-väëijyaà vaiçya-karma svabhäva-jam—kåñi, agriculture; go-rakñya, cow protection. Go-rakñya. That is essential, agricultural and cow protection. And väëijyam. Väëijyam means trade. If there is excess milk product, if there is excess grain product, then you can sell to others.(From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, December 29, 1973)
In the discussion below at Bombay, Srila Prabhupada appreciates the profits made from the Gita Nagari farm cow protection program.
In one farm, Philadelphia, they are producing so much milk that they are selling $1500 per month. And they’ve arranged so nice, and big tank. And the pipes regularly as they do in dairy farm. When it is not working, only hot water is passing through the pipes to keep them clean. And one cow, the milk bag is so big. He gives 102 pounds daily. Similarly, in France also we have got farm. New Orleans, Philadelphia, West Virginia, we have got four or five. (From an evening darsana given by Srila Prabhupada: August 14, 1976, Bombay)
Below, Srila Prabhupada approves of the plan to have dairies with large number of milking cows.
Devotee (reading an newspaper article): Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, Prabhupäda: A very important article.(Room Conversation: August 22, 1976, Hyderabad)
Prabhupäda: Somebody is proposing to give us some dairy land? Dairy.
Tamäla Kåñëa: Dairy land in Agra?
Prabhupäda: Agra?
Tamäla Kåñëa: I heard also someone was proposing. One man who’s staying here now is proposing four acres in Agra. They went today to see it. I think Bhagatjé went and also Akñayänanda Mahäräja. They’ll give you a report on it.
Prabhupäda: Supply of ghee from that dairy land would be very good. (Room Conversation—Recent Mail: July 14, 1977, Våndävana)
Buying from Our Farms
Perhaps fifteen years ahead of his time, a thoughtful devotee wrote the following in 1992. In my opinion, he has really presented a viable plan which deserves to be implemented in ISKCON tout de suite.
If we are to establish Kåñëa consciousness, it is imperative that we live our philosophy and support cow protection by supporting employment of the cows and oxen.
But it doesn’t seem we are doing so well in that regard. Looking over the information about the farms, I noticed with interest that only a small number of the cows are actually being milked. For example, at Gétä Nagari 2 of 69 were fresh [newly calved and therefore milking], and I suspect that more are dry than retired.
A devotee friend of mine explained to me that it’s a matter of economics: the farms simply cannot afford to keep the cows fresh. I heard this with great astonishment. If we as a society are committed to cow protection, then we must arrange for it to make sense economically. Otherwise, as the article pointed out, cow protection will be abandoned.
Every temple, I am sure, uses large amounts of milk products. Why aren’t these products of our own farms? My friend pointed out that the temples can buy dairy products from the store for less than what it costs to make them ourselves, because the store products are government subsidized.
But is that an excuse? That means we value dollars above cow protection. As a society we spend millions of dollars a year to distribute books and prasädam because we understand the great need for these programs, even though they may not pay for themselves. Why should cow protection be considered less important?
Many nondevotee vegetarians shun commercial dairy products because these products are linked to the slaughter of calves. Yet we, who profess to champion cow protection, buy these products instead of our own dairy produce because they’re cheaper.
This doesn’t make sense, nor is it morally sound. We should offer our own nonviolent dairy products. Charge what we must, there are people out there willing to pay for it to support the principles they (and we) believe in.
—Dhaneçvara Däsa
It looks like the time has come to implement Dhanesvara’s idea. ISKCON Europe’s minister of agriculture, Syamasundara dasa Adhikari, recently shared his similar thoughts as follows:
In our society I feel that we are not willing to pay the real price for our milk and this I feel is one of the reasons why cow protection is not being supported and promoted as much as it appeared when Srila Prabhupada was with us. Generally our farms, temples and restaurants buy cheap and consequently they seem not to have enough money to buy the farm milk products at a price that enables it to be produced. If our own ISKCON projects agreed to pay the real sustainable price for devotionally-procured milk then I am sure it will create a wave of new farms.
This is the crux of the dilemma. High quality, devotionally-surcharged milk from loved-cows living on devotee farms costs more to bring forth than factory farm milk where government subsidies and every conceivable penny-pinching, cut-throat scheme is employed. Thus the price for cow protection’s higher quality milk should be borne in each gallon purchased. It’s kind of like buying books from BBT—others may print them but Srila Prabhupada wanted to use BBT for many strengthening reasons.
Dhaneçvara Däsa will be pleased to know that the devotees in Europe are thinking along the same lines as he and have instituted a plan. HH Sivarama Swami says that the ultimate solution is to have farming communities as Srila Prabhupada wanted where cow protection is a priority. For this reason Srila Prabhupada said to keep as many cows as possible, which is a tall order. But if we do keep as many cows as possible, and if we have cow protection, and if devotees and congregation members are actually protecting those cows and maintaining them, then we can have enough milk to provide temples and congregation members and everyone with milk.
At a recent ISKCON European leaders’ meeting, a regulation was passed obliging all temples, restaurants and projects to take vegetables and dairy products from the farm projects at the real price of production. The only limitation is that if by doing so the purchasing project comes under financial difficulty then they will not have to pay the full price. The supplier will have to present their financial information (if required) to justify any prices. The products will also have to be in a reasonable condition.
This means, in a nut shell, that if the farm can supply the products that are being used, the projects have to buy at the cost needed to grow it. This regulation, in effect, gives a guaranteed market for our entrepreneurial growers. It significantly swings the weight in the favor of the grower and hopefully will give a significant boost to our farm production. This regulation is presently only applicable to Europe but may be of equal interest and benefit for all our farm projects.
I agree that consumers within ISKCON and the greater society will pay the market price for higher grade (totally non-violent) dairy products if they know what goes into them and what happens and what does not happen to the cows that give the milk. Generating a market for premium protected milk will stimulate our own projects into remembering the value of home-produced milk. Then the next step will be to engage bulls in non-tractor, non-petroleum, non-violent agriculture for supplying our projects and others.
Above: The beautiful gosala at New Vraja-dhama, Hungary, home to happy cows and bulls
Conclusion
Philosophical Principles:
No one has done more for cow protection in modern times than Srila Prabhupada.
The Vedas consider cows’ milk intrinsically healthy and essential for human beings.
The cows’ special duty is supplying milk to Lord Krsna and to humanity.
Humans, acting as guardians, have dominion over the animals to engage them as assistants in the service of the Lord.
By preventing cows from executing their duties, man inflicts violence upon them because violence can be defined as “checking one from doing his rightful duty.”
A human diet without dairy products causes brain malnourishment and thus inhibits one’s ability to understand spiritual subjects.
Ethical Concerns:
The highest ethical standard regarding dairy products is found in the Vedas.
Non-Vedic man-made plans are flawed with the four defects of mistakes, illusion, imperfect senses and cheating.
Accusing commercial dairy consumers to be guilty of complicity with cow slaughter is very risky for spiritual advancement.
Non-devotee farms should be encouraged to let cows and bulls die naturally before eating them.
Goals:
To work toward eliminating cow slaughter and abuse
To achieve a higher standard of diary products in the world.
To realize sustainable devotional cow protection programs.
Practical Action Plan:
To establish a dairy certification system which includes totally non-violent milk products (i.e. milk that has been received by cows that, along with their calves, will never be slaughtered)
Revive sustainable farms using successful ISKCON cow-protection models.
Encourage temples, restaurants, devotees and friends of Krishna to purchase dairy products from ISKCON farms or, if unavailable, from other high-principled farms.
Brahmanas should educate society about the importance of cow protection.
Ksatriyas should become leaders in legislating cow protection.
Vaisyas should personally take up the task of protecting cows and bulls or should hire others to do it.
Sudras should assist the three other sectors of society in cow protection.
Boycotting Dairy Products:
Indicates a failure to understand the importance of milk for human society and especially for devotees of Krishna.
Disregards God’s and nature’s arrangement of cooperation between humans and animals as pronounced in the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, etc.
Rests on fallacious ideas.
Creates more problems than it solves (mäyä-sukhäya bharam udvahato vimüòhän)
Hastens slaughter of cows because milkless cows will be seen as valueless to human society.
Is an attempt to be more moral and intelligent than the acarya
Is a dubious method of spreading Krishna consciousness.
We do not expect the task of establishing cow protection to come easily but it is our duty to try our best.
Just like in your country it is very chilly in the morning to take bath, a little difficult task. But does it mean that those who are devotees, they will stop taking bath? No. Even it is chilly, cold, one must take bath. The duty must be done. The duty must be done. Even it is little suffering. That is called tapasya. Tapasya means we must prolong or proceed with, with our Kåñëa consciousness business in spite of all dangerous and calamitous condition of this world. This is called tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting the difficulties of life. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, April 17, 1973)
Anyone interested in participating in this project is invited to contact me. Hare Krishna.
Let us be practical, Srila Prabhupada says that the tongue has two activities. To chant the Mahamantra and to eat Mahaprasada. These two combination have Presiding Personalities and They are Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Jagannatha Mahaprabhu of Puri. A common man may not be inclined to chant however, he/she will be inclined to taste Mahaprasada. Especially if we want to make children devotee from young age, they are the one who benefits most from this Mahaprasada distribution. Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna appeared in the form of Lord Jagannatha and as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to deliver the fallen conditioned souls. Out of these two forms of Divine Mercy, One is more merciful than other. Mahaprasad is definitely lot easier to give out to everyone compared to requesting everyone to chant. Unless, of course the chanter is a very pure devotee of Krishna like Srila Prabhupada. Of course, while Mahaprasada distribution is going on it should be accompanied by Harinama Sankirtan. A person eating Mahaprasada will automatically start feeling the transcendental vibration of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra as the Mahaprasada purifies his/her body, mind and tongue (kaya, mana, vakya) and as a result that person will appreciate the Holy Name better while eating. There are devotees in ISKCON who can vouch for the effect of eating Mahaprasada because that’s what attracted them to Krishna Consciousness in the first place. A Sannyasi may not be able to appreciate this Mahaprasada distribution because he has already taken sannyasa from eating but that doesn’t mean the general populace has taken sannyasa from eating. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came to Sri Jagannatha Puri for a reason, to glorify Sri Krishna’s Holy Name and His Mahaprasada. Sri Krishna through Sri Jagannatha introduced His Mahaprasada and through Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu His Transcendental Name and this we can see in the activities of our Srila Prabhupada, He also introduced this Sankirtan Yajna and celebration of Sri Jagannatha Ratha Yatra where tons of Mahaprasada is distributed all over the world. I don’t think there exist a movement which is like ISKCON who has both. Srila Prabhupada followed Sriman Mahaprabhu’s mood of Sri Jagannatha Puri as it is and that is why He has been very successful.
The goal of ISKCON is to spread Krishna Consciousness. Distributing Prasadam helps and is very beneficial, but we have to preach to come to the stage of making people chant Hare Krishna or to hear the mantra, take books, hear the philosophy etc. If we just continue to feed prasadam without doing the other above activities then we didn’t really do as much as we could have to elevate them. If we study the seven aims of ISKCON we can see that actually all the money and effort should go primarily to book distribution. Of course Prasadam distribution has a very important role to play. I personally want to get the benediction of being able to distribute Krishna Prasadam widely my whole life, but not as an independent activity separated from Harinam kirtan, Book distribution, philosophical discourses (the activity would depend on the level of the attendees).
Some quotes:
If we open a branch in Madras, actually there are so many poor children there. Spiritual education and food, that is proper. Simply supplying food is nonsense. Spiritual education means just to inject in their ears about our philosophy, externally they chant beads, wear tilak, without any discrimination of Hindu or Muslim or anything.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Gurudasa — Honolulu 13 May, 1972
In Vrindaban we can begin this prasadam distribution program also. Of course, there are many chatras for distributing, but we shall give them also Krishna Consciousness, that will be unique.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Gurudasa, Yamuna — Tokyo 25 April, 1972
Kirtana and prasada distribution. So our men can perform very nice kirtana, and if they come to take little prasadam, that is preaching. You have to maintain this standard, that kirtana must go on and prasadam should be distributed.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara
I recommend a seminar by H.H. Jayadvaita Swami titled “Food for Death” http://www.jswami.info/seminar
Your servant,
Murari Das
Why wouldn’t devotees entertain the idea of disregarding the preaching mission? It has happened often–in the name of preaching no less–for devotees to not be in their right minds all the while believing themselves to be free from delusion. Even big devotees who are managers of very important global projects are not exceptions. Certainly, Prabhu Priyavrata hasn’t given us a reason to believe otherwise.
As regards to Shastra and the acharyas, I would have thought that, by now, with all the accumulated negative experience of all the things that have gone wrong when devotees selectively lift a quote here and a quote there in order to justify some new idea, that we would start to see this kind of thing fade away. But that practice is apparently alive and well, and the open letter is guilty of indulging in it.
For example, Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja in his lecture quoted at length a letter from Srila Prabhupada to the top ministers in the State of Andhra Pradhesh. And in that letter, Srila Prabhupada turned down their request to spearhead a massive food relief effort during a famine going on in the region at the time. Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja also read the request of the ministers, verbatim. In their request, they even promised Srila Prabhupada unqualified support for establishing ISKCON in their state. Yet Srila Prabhupada refused. That kind of counter-evidence doesn’t make it into the open letter. If it had, the open letter would have had to concede that Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja did indeed have some important points worthy of consideration.
Of course, Maharaja is here accused of being selective in his own quotes, but what Maharaja quotes is not the kind of thing you hear from the Food for Life people. It is certainly not a part of their propaganda, or a part of their hermeneutic for that matter. They are no less selective. So Maharaja is performing a valuable service in reminding us of the pitfalls that all too often turn out to be real.
As to the members of the cited organizations here being incapable of going off in a wrong direction, show me the Vedic injunction that says so and I’ll believe it.
Pranams to Maharaja and to all the devotees.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Sri Guru & Sri Gauranga.
In the first place, I would like to offer my humble obeissances to all the devotees who take part in Prasada distribution, in our Food for Life program all over the world and in our mid-day meal program in India.
Secondly, I would like to kindly orientate our concerns, not over what makes ISKCON and ISKCON devotees popular, but rather around what has made ISKCON and may still make ISKCON either unpopular or not as popular as Srila Prabhupada’s divine mission (on behalf of our Guru Parampara, coming through Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu) should be !
Hence, rather than being finicky about what works, all the more when it is on the absolute platform, is a pillar of the Sankirtan Movement and contributes greatly to its global success, such as prasadam distribution, if we have to search for ways to improve the functioning of our current ISKCON Movement and would like to express some concerns, don’t you all think that we should rather focus on our current mistakes and find ways to improve the present situation, as there are enough openings for improvements, despite some obvious and visible general progress.
However, we may understand that one may see things from different angles and Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja is a scholar. So, from his angle of vision, he may wish to convince people on the basis of our philosophy, which is also a laudable wish.
Nevertheless, one should understand that the Sankirtan Movement is anandam buddhi vardanam, it is an ever expanding ocean of spiritual bliss… So, our concern is not to substract or replace one aspect by another, but rather to keep adding up all the positive aspects of the preaching mission and build up on success.
Hence, whatever positive result we may get in one corner of the world, becomes everyone’s success and is for everyone to rejoice about. And whatever set back we may get, be it an isolated example, either individual or collective, may become everyone’s concern.
In conclusion, I would hence humbly submit that one should not become somewhat of a party pooper and start picking on others’ success as it is also our collective success. In that regard, we have to watch within us what may remain of the envious mentality and hold tightly the leash of that still conditioned mind with our higher intelligence.
And we should rather all bathe in the joy of our successes and go for more…
My initial concern with the lecture is that in my opinion Bhakti Vikasha Swami was indirectly criticising his senior Godbrother, Mukunda Goswami by totally misrepresenting the story regarding the Salvation Army. Mukunda Goswami was not suggesting that ISKCON become like the Salvation Army, he was just making a point that through positive social contributions they were able to change public opinion. Unfortunately for them, is that they forgot their missionary activities for the sake of mundane charity.
Fortunately for us is that prasadam distribution is ALWAYS transcendental, no matter who it is directed at. And, ISKCON has never stopped chanting Hare Krishna.
The first reference I gave from the Bhagavatam explains it all, Chanting as much as possible and distributing prasadam as far as possible. We should encourage any program that is realising these ideals.
Just because a prasadam distribution program is focused on an underpriviledged sector of society, does not mean that the program is mundane or somehow less pure. Prasadam is for everyone, including the poor. Furthermore, you can be sure that all these children are developing great faith in Krishna and the devotees. Seeds of bhakti are being planted.
Moreover, consistent with Srila Prabhupada’s desire that we engage the state administrators in this mission, the Midday meal program has done a tremendous job in inspiring and gaining the support of so many leaders of society, all of whom in their own way can influence the masses to accept ISKCON and have faith in Krishna.
Maharaja may have encouraged the mass distribution of prasadam, however, to suggest that these projects are impure or leading ISKCON down a path of mundanity is absurd and quite frankly very offensive to a lot of very pure devotees.
Please understand that I write these words, not in defence of myself, but the thousands of great souls who work hard every day to share Krishna’s mercy. I am pray to remain their servant.
As to Krishna Kirti’s comments, I stand my ground that ISKCON is too large an organization that it will ever lose sight of the goal of spreading Krishna consciousness. I know of no prasadam distribution program in the world that does not have this as their ULTIMATE agenda. The only difference is that prasadam distributors have a different way of doing that to the book distributors. Unity in diversity. In this regard, I second the words of Puskaraksa prabhu.
I think HH Bhakti Vikas Swami makes some good points. And honestly I feel these issues are worth debating; they will help Srila Prabhupada’a movement in the long run.
However, I feel that HH Bhakti Vikas Swami should take up these issues directly with the GBC and specifically with some of the sponsors of the mid day meal programs (e.g. HH Gopal Krishna Goswami Maharaj and HH Radhanath Swami Maharaj).
My feeling is that giving a series of lectures to the public and posting them on the internet to air ‘Concerns about ISKCON’ will polarize the devotees and not really help the movement. If HH BVKS has concerns about HH RNS’s books or preaching style then they should talk it out amongst themselves. They are god-brothers and exemplary vaishnavas so I am sure they will be able to amicably sort out the matter.
I understand that HH BVKS is frustrated because the GBC are unable to see is viewpoint. But Srila Prabhupada’s desire for all of his disciples to co-operate with one and another despite different viewpoints.
I would also like to acknowledge the etiquette of the Chowpatty devotees; despite being criticized they have not reacted with harsh words. Whats more, they have even posted HH BVKS lecture on the iskcondesiretree website.
HH BVKS and the entire GBC have the best intentions regarding ISKCON. It is only the methodology they adopt to serve that can polarize and break this movement.
Karandhara: Nine million.
Prabhupada: Nine million dollars, and, to the… This is going on. In the Bhagavad-gītā we don’t find anywhere a single line that “You raise funds for,” I mean to say, “giving relief to the poor” or “to the suffering.” Is there any instruction in Bhagavad-gītā? You have read? Can you find out? But these people, they have become more learned than Krsna. In our country, Vivekananda: daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The whole Ramakrishna Mission is collecting funds only on this rascal plea. One Swami Nikhilananda, he told me “Now the Americans are questioning that you are raising fund for feeding the poor, but when we go to India we see simply poor men. What you are doing with this money?” Actually they are doing nothing. They are collecting money in the name of feeding the poor, and they are living just like royal style, you see, eating all, everything.
Ysvt.
Jai Srila Prabhupada
Bhakti Vikasa Swami Maharaj’s words are Misunderstood.
He didn’t discouraged Prasadam Distribution.
I would also request those who Find Bhakti Vikasa Swami Maharaj’s Audio lecture improper, to listen it carefuly.
Mid Day Meal is Very nice initiative, which feeds Poor School going childrens.But then why we need Bollywood Actress and Actors to Promote Mid Day Meal !! ??
Isin’t Lord Krsna and Radha enough to Promote Mid Day Meal ?? Isin’t Srila Prabhupada enough to Promote Mid Day Meal? Isin’t Devotees who help in Mid Meal enough to promote Mid Day meal.
Why are they(Film Actors and Actress for whom Maharaj calls Prostitute in a right way)asked to promote and speaks…and this Mundane people speaks on Mundane topic and Our Main Motive which is Giving Krsna Consciousness along with Krsna Prasadam is left side.
In the News paper the other day,Mid Meal comes along with Photos of Actors and Actress.
http://www.middaymeal.com/picturegallery_14thnov_2009_Childrens_Day.htm
Here are the Photos of those Actors invited at the Mid Day Meal program.These photos are uploaded on Mid Day Meal webssite.Where as His Holiness Radhanath Swami Maharaj was also inivted but in the Newspaper the Focused just came on The Bollywood Actor and Actress.
There have been instances where hired karmis are preparing pakoras at festival booths serving them to the gullible masses as prasadam. It is a valid argument that it is difficult to arrange for an initiated devotee during a busy festival who will cook bhoga with love and devotion and then offer it properly so that it is accepted by Krishna. Nevertheless, since a hired karmi is cooking in substandard conditions, the preparations can’t be considered as prasadam.
There are other instances where it is difficult to find pujaris even to ensure that the daily Deity worship continues. In such scenarios the authorities have settled with pujaris who do not chant 16 rounds, who watch karmi videos during their spare time, do Deity worship and offer bhoga mechanically, etc. In many of these instances the authorities have tried hard to rectify the pujari under consideration but with limited success. So I am not questioning the lack of sincerity of the authorities. Nevertheless the preparations served during Sunday feast and otherwise are in all likelihood not prasadam as Krishna most likely didn’t accept it.
Distributing karmi food is inauspicious and sinful, but distributing karmi food in name of prasadam (which is meant to be the ultimate medicine of material conditioning) is much worse. It is akin to selling counterfeit medicines. Contrary to the wishful thinking of accruing benefits of distributing prasadam one might be committing grave offenses.
Karmi food sold in market clearly lists its ingredients, nutritional value and conditions in which it was prepared. Similarly, the masses should also be apprised of with all information needed to know if the preparations distributed are indeed prasadam.
People will appreciate the sincerity in acknowledging the shortcomings which they are observing anyways.
From: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda – IN) Date: 29-Jul-11
To: “Dr.N D Desai”
Subject: ISKCON and social welfare work
Dear Sri Nathji Prabhu,
Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Received both of your messages, written in response to my comments on Bhima Prabhu’s posting on the ISKCON India Continental Committee (ICC) conference on PAMHO.net
Kindly accept my personal and unconditional apology if you in anyway feel personally insulted by what I wrote on the ICC conference regarding the “mid-day meals” program.
My intention was not to attack you personally or slander your integrity. As you well know I hold you in high esteem, and respect with high regard the many wonderful services you have rendered to the ISKCON institution. I’ve always dealt with you with the utmost respect and regard.
However, I do feel that I have right to express my personal opinion regarding what I consider here to be both an ideological as well as a practical issue. Is that “in and of itself”, wrong?
It would have been nobler, that instead of launching a “frontal attack” on my personality and integrity – which seems to be political in nature – that you would have simply stuck to the issue of “mid-day meals” and “social welfare work”, and not decided to tread on the right that Bhima Prabhu and I have to express our opinions regarding the direction and functioning of the ISKCON institution.
Imagine if the crores of rupees that have been collected (as well as the time and effort put into making those collections) for the mid-day meals program had been channeled into book distribution, “scientific preaching” (BI/Drutakarma Prabhu), and youth preaching (as Radhe Shyam Prabhu is so successfully undertaking at Pune and all over India)?
Ten years ago at “Radhadesh”, ISKCON’s center in Belgium, HH Jayadvaita Swami gave a series of lectures entitled “Food for Death”, wherein he staunchly opposed “social welfare oriented” activities, based on his understanding of Prabhupada’s instructions.
Those lectures appear on Jayadvaita Maharaj’s website at the following URL (link):
http://www.jswami.info/seminars#food
That Prabhupada wanted prasad from Mayapur temple to be sent to needy villagers in the area (the “10 kilometer radius” quote you mentioned, but overgeneralized) was a “specific time and circumstance instruction” by Prabhupada and not one of his “key teachings”.
The point, Prabhu, is simple. There is an urgent need in the world for spreading the teachings of the vedic literatures, which the governments of the world are totally neglecting. Mid-day meals is a diversion from this mission – in my and many other devotees opinions.
To be frank, charity, in the view of the “mleccha and yavana West”, is hospitals, schools, poor feeding, emergency medical assistance, etc., etc.
Prabhupada did not outline such activities for ISKCON, and hence the Bhaktivedanta Hospital was not allowed by the GBC – and not by Bhima Das or Basu Ghosh Das – to be a part of ISKCON. Why blame us here? Why become angry when we humbly point out that these activities were not what
Prabhupada (nor our previous acharyas, specifically Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur) envisioned to be part of his (their) preaching mission?
In conclusion, I humbly request that you have a “rethink” here. Kindly consider – after all you a very highly learned, intelligent, and devotional individual – that spending our time and money on social welfare activities is a deviation from the vision for spreading Krishna bhakti and vedic sanatan dharma as taught by Prabhupada.
So while I agree that we should show mercy to the distressed – whatever their personal physical and mental distress happen to be – we as Gaudiya Vaishnavas should aim to propagate the ideology propagated by Prabhupada and Srila Saraswati Thakur, menionted herein above, for the “shreyas” – the
liberation of the atma from the “samsara chakram” – of mankind.
Thank you, Sri Nathji Prabhu, for your kind consideration of these theological and philosophical points. Whatever you may think, I will continue hold you personally in high regard.
Hoping this meets you well.
daso’smi (I am your servant),
Basu Ghosh Das
Bashu Gosh, also good point, however, I think it is unfair to label any kind of prasadam distribution as “social welfare activities.” Doing so, in my opinion, lessons to service of those involved. If the food is prepared and offered with love, then it is prasadam, and prasadam distribution is transcendental.
Krishna Kirti prabhu, I am a very optimistic person and I know that Prabhupada will not fail. Since ISKCON is Prabhupada’s body, it won’t fail. I pray that you will one day have such faith.
Ys
Priyavrata das
PAMHO. AGTSP.
My comment Part-1:
Very happy to see some sparks coming out of this and that the matter is under discussion as this will help ISKCON, if required, to improve.
What I can strictly see in this open letter is that the author and the similar devotees have felt offended by the lecture of HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami. But, as pointed out in many comments above, HH Bhaktivikasa Swami is not against prasadam distribution per se, but is certainly against: 1) prasadam distribution without the accompanying activity of Harinam. 2) Popularizing ISKCON on the basis of prasadam distribution as the welfare activity (although not mentioned it as mundane but not emphasizing its spiritual effects while collecting for it passes the message of it being mundane).
I would like to draw the attention of H G Priyavrata Prabhu that 3 out of the 4 quotes he has mentioned in the open letter mentions having other two activities along with prasadam distribution. Now H G Murari Prabhu has mentioned very nice and relevant quotes where Srila Prabhupada specifically addresses this issue of distributing prasadam without harinam and other activities together.
The basic mistake being done here is to take the 3 aspects of preaching viz. Harinam, prasadam distribution and philosphical discourse, to be separate from each other. It is mistakenly thought that one can lead one aspect and the other can lead the other aspect and the mission will flourish. It is to be noted from the quotes in Murari Prabhu’s comment that Srila Prabhupada was not in favor of it.
Now coming to the point of HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami using SP quotes selectively, I am not able to make out what does that actually mean? I think no intelligent person will be able to appreciate this statement, because this can be used against anyone who quotes SP. The point is that the person accusing this should prove that HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami has selectively used the quotes without proper context.
So I would like to invite the author of this open letter to please substantiate and prove the words he has said. Then it will help all the members of ISKCON to understand the matter more properly and at least the intelligent class to appreciate the open letter.
Of course the author tried to prove his point by stating about 4 quotes directly related to Prasadam distribution, but, as I pointed out, they support HH Bhaktivikasa Swami more than the author.
Thankyou,
Hari Guru Vaisnava Das
Damodara Das.
My comment Part 2:
Also respected Priyavrata Prabhu,
Please properly read and quote the full letter that Srila Prabhupada wrote (jan 9, 1973 to Damodara) and that you have quoted in this open letter. Actual fact is completely screened by your selective quoting from this letter of Srila Prabhupada.
Hope the facts as they are, will become more clear and the audience can understand them.
Thankyou,
Hari Guru Vaisnava Das,
Damodara Das.
How did Salvation Army deviate to such a great extent? When a missionary establishment engages in social contributions even if it is at a small extent, people and governments expect more. And the more one engages is social welfare the expectations keep on increasing. Thats how a missionary church ends up where Salvation Army is today.
Now that we have established a good reputation for feeding the school children all over India, next time the government is looking for collaboration with some organization for some other charitable work they will come to ISKCON or its affiliates and we won’t have any solid grounds to say no even if wanted to deny. So to keep the authorities happy we might have to venture into charities which wouldn’t have otherwise.
There might be genuine need for these charities, but the point is that there are other institutions dedicated for such work. For instance the Indian Military doesn’t take up the role of Judiciary just because there several hundreds of thousands of court cases pending in Indian courts for several decades and there are not enough personnel to administer them. If they do, they will be dragged into this further and won’t be able to administer their actual duties. Indian borders will then be infiltrated by the Chinese and Pakistanis. It will be disaster. Even if people didn’t have a favorable opinion about the Military and even if they accused them of sitting on the borders and consuming tax-payers money, they are better of doing that. It is bad idea for the Military to be engaged to Judiciary to get a favorable opinion of the people.
Let the charitable organizations to do the charity and let the spiritual organizations focus on their core business without venturing into gray areas.
The distribution of prasadam on a mass scale in ISKCON, apart from the festivals like Rathayatra and the like, started to the best of my recollection in Mayapur. After the Bangladesh war or floods, ISKCON Mayapur developed large covered shelters in which to feed large numbers of people. This was blessed by Srila Prabhupad. It is more than simply “public relations”, as might be promoted. It is part of a vaishnava’s compassion. Someone cannot survive to revive their Krishna consciousness without eating! And, that mercy mission evolved further into the Food for Life Program which in come cases may be serving prasadam to very poor people and in some cases helping to educate people that prasadam is nourishing both to the body and the spirit. Who could object to that? It is part of the educational mission of ISKCON.
Money that is collected for Krishna’s service need not only be used for “printing books”. Obviously, Srila Prabhupad expanded ISKCON with Temples, farm communities, etc. which give places for Krishna katha to take place. When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad said to our Gurudeva that “if you have some money, print books”, it was both for the future needs of humanity to learn about Krishna in the English (and other) languages, but also to avoid the squabbles about properties that so many lesser vaishnavas may take part in. You must not hang every argument about the use of money for Krishna’s service on the argument that it is all meant for printing books. I would suggest that you would not be able to collect very much if you only promoted that ‘all donations will be used to print books.’ Seriously, these are simple minded arguments within only a small space. Encourage open-mindedness. The activities of the bhaktas who act with faith are all glorious…and that is my personal take on this. Pusta Krishna das
ajna-dana-tapah-karma
na tyajyam karyam eva tat
yajno danam tapas caiva
pavanani manisinam
SYNONYMS
yajna–sacrifice; dana–charity; tapah–penance; karma–activities; na–never; tyajyam–to be given up; karyam–must be done; eva–certainly; tat–that; yajnah–sacrifice; danam–charity; tapah–penance; ca–also; eva–certainly; pavanani–purifying; manisinam–even of the great souls.
TRANSLATION
Acts of sacrifice, charity and penance are not to be given up but should be performed. Indeed, sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great souls.
PURPORT BY HIS DIVINE GRACE AC BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI SRILA PRABHUPADA
The yogis should perform acts for the advancement of human society. There are many purificatory processes for advancing a human being to spiritual life. The marriage ceremony, for example, is considered to be one of these sacrifices. It is called vivaha-yajna. Should a sannyasi, who is in the renounced order of life and who has given up his family relations, encourage the marriage ceremony? The Lord says here that any sacrifice which is meant for human welfare should never be given up. Vivaha-yajna, the marriage ceremony, is meant to regulate the human mind to become peaceful for spiritual advancement. For most men, this vivaha-yajna should be encouraged even by persons in the renounced order of life. Sannyasis should never associate with women, but that does not mean that one who is in the lower stages of life, a young man, should not accept a wife in the marriage ceremony. All prescribed sacrifices are meant for achieving the Supreme Lord. Therefore, in the lower stages, they should not be given up. Similarly, charity is for the purification of the heart. If charity is given to suitable persons, as described previously, it leads one to advanced spiritual life.
atha māḿ sarva-bhūteṣu
bhūtātmānaḿ kṛtālayam
arhayed dāna-mānābhyāḿ
maitryābhinnena cakṣuṣā
SYNONYMS
atha — therefore; mām — Me; sarva-bhūteṣu — in all creatures; bhūta-ātmānam — the Self in all beings; kṛta-ālayam — abiding; arhayet — one should propitiate; dāna-mānābhyām — through charity and respect; maitryā — through friendship; abhinnena — equal; cakṣuṣā — by viewing.
TRANSLATION
Therefore, through charitable gifts and attention, as well as through friendly behavior and by viewing all to be alike, one should propitiate Me, who abide in all creatures as their very Self.
PURPORT BY HIS DIVINE GRACE AC BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI SRILA PRABHUPADA
It should not be misunderstood that because the Supersoul is dwelling within the heart of a living entity, the individual soul has become equal to Him. The equality of the Supersoul and the individual soul is misconceived by the impersonalist. Here it is distinctly mentioned that the individual soul should be recognized in relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The method of worshiping the individual soul is described here as either giving charitable gifts or behaving in a friendly manner, free from any separatist outlook…
dāna-dharmān rāja-dharmān
mokṣa-dharmān vibhāgaśaḥ
strī-dharmān bhagavad-dharmān
samāsa-vyāsa-yogataḥ
SYNONYMS
dāna-dharmān — the acts of charity; rāja-dharmān — pragmatic activities of the kings; mokṣa-dharmān — the acts for salvation; vibhāgaśaḥ — by divisions; strī-dharmān — duties of women; bhagavat-dharmān — the acts of the devotees; samāsa — generally; vyāsa — explicitly; yogataḥ — by means of.
TRANSLATION
He then explained, by divisions, acts of charity, the pragmatic activities of a king and activities for salvation. Then he described the duties of women and devotees, both briefly and extensively.
PURPORT BY HIS DIVINE GRACE AC BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI SRILA PRABHUPADA
To give charity is one of the householder’s main functions, and he should be prepared to give in charity at least fifty percent of his hard-earned money. A brahmacārī, or student, should perform sacrifices, a householder should give charity, and a person in the retired life or in the renounced order should practice penances and austerities. Those are the general functions of all the āśramas, or orders of life on the path of self-realization. In the brahmacārī life the training is sufficiently imparted so that one may understand that the world as property belongs to the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead. No one, therefore, can claim to be the proprietor of anything in the world. Therefore, in the life of a householder, which is a sort of license for sex enjoyment, one must give in charity for the service of the Lord. Everyone’s energy is generated or borrowed from the reservoir of energy of the Lord; therefore, the resultant actions of such energy must be given to the Lord in the shape of transcendental loving service for Him. As the rivers draw water from the sea through the clouds and again go down to the sea, similarly our energy is borrowed from the supreme source, the Lord’s energy, and it must return to the Lord. That is the perfection of our energy. The Lord, therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā (9.27) says that whatever we do, whatever we undergo as penance, whatever we sacrifice, whatever we eat or whatever we give in charity must be offered to Him (the Lord). That is the way of utilizing our borrowed energy. When our energy is utilized in that way, our energy is purified from the contamination of material inebrieties, and thus we become fit for our original natural life of service to the Lord…
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I just heard HH Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja’s concern lecture.
It is obvious that you misunderstood him. Maharaj clearly glorifies prasadam distribution and gives examples of such projects in the ISKCON’s world, where prasadam distribution is done in proper spirit, namely accompanied with chanting the holy name and preaching KC. (the very same thing is expressed in “Food for death” by HH Jayadvaita maharaj.) Then he expresses his concern about the prasadam distribution projects which are presented as “feed the poor”, which are not accompanied by chanting the holy name and are obviously meant for easy funds collection. The worst of all is that such a presentation of our movement in public would put us down on mundane welfare platform, which is obviously something that Srila Prabhupada did not want, as quoted in SSR chapter. Altruism: Temporary and Eternal. Obviously that Srila Prabhupada new the “opportunity” to get good name for the society, support from “many important men”, but he flatly refuse. Why? It is clear that he did not want to present his movement as another mundane welfare society. Technically called “karma”. He did not want to mix karma into pure bhakti, for this is the ideal jïäna-karmädy-anävåtam. So Maharaja’s concern is reasonable, supported by Srila Prabhupada’s quotes and highly encouraging suddha-bhakti way of prasadam distribution.
I found that all the quotes you provided fit very nicely in what HH Bhakti Vikasa Maharaj have said, but from your letter I could not understand how you are going to fit this Srila Prabhupada’s quote mentioned above.
Holding such a important post in our movement, please kindly explain how do you fit this Srila Prabhupada’s quote in your concept?
Is there any other explanation than “mundane altruism vs. pure devotion”, humbly I would like to know.
If not, the please consider apologizing to HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami who is your well-wisher and is kindly warning us about deviation from Srila Prabhupada’s path – the path of pure bhakti.
Waiting for your reply.
Your servant
Gokula Candra das
I listened attentively to Swami Bhakti Vikash’s long class and have read many comments on it here and elsewhere.
My first point is that the Swami has not fabricated anything, nor has he spoken with malicious intent, or envy. He has supported his realizations, conclusions with reference to Shastra, Guru, and Sadhu.
I feel to attack him for his having the courage to speak his realization is in itself offensive.
He has deeper concern that the food for life programs, which are the subtle influence of mayavadi / impersonal philosophy creeping into the society of devotees.
One may consider how much effort His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada made in writing chapter after chapter, and hundreds and thousands of purports to explain the subtleties of Mayavada. Who did he write his books for? He wrote them for us, his followers, who are the readers of his books! Who are the mayavadis? It is us, we all are born here envious of Krishna, trying to imitate Krishna, we all want to be the center of attention, and we are all diseased. Unless and until we are situated in our swarup, as long as the modes of material nature are affecting us we are still diseased.
Today, we see a lot of intermingling of devotees with other religious groups, interfaith so-called conferences, etc. His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada never mixed with these. He always made it clear that we are here to teach “ananya bhilasita sunyam, jnana karmadi anavrtam” pure unalloyed devotional service untouched by jnana, karma, yoga, etc.
I find that Swami Bhakti Vikash’s point it this and it behooves us to remain fixated on this EKANATA BHAKTI, and not become again enamoured by karma, jnana, yoga, etc.
Notice in the second letter the sentence: “and actually, OUR TEMPLE should be the via media for feeding the poor with food and spiritual knowledge.” [Caps added for emphasis herein above. Note that the letter from SSR, below, extends to a second, “separate” comment, that will appear, below].
From: The Science of Self Realization, Chapter 6 “Altruism: Temporary and Eternal”
In 1972, the South Indian state of Andhra Pradesh was stricken by a severe drought that affected millions. Hoping that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness would provide assistance, T. L. Kapadia, Secretary of the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund Committee, wrote to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada responded with this surprising and edifying letter.
Revered Swamiji,
The residents of the twin cities are happy to have this opportunity to meet you and your esteemed followers. You may be aware that due to inadequate rainfall during the last two years and its complete failure this year, more than half of our state [Andhra Pradesh, a state in southern India] is in the grip of a serious drought. With a view to supplement governmental efforts to combat this evil, a Central Voluntary Organization of citizens drawn from various walks of life has been set up. The members of this organization surveyed the areas affected by drought. The situation is pathetic. There are villages where drinking water is not available for miles. Due to scarcity of fodder, the cattle owners are parting with their cattle for a nominal price. Many of the stray cattle are dying away due to unavailability of fodder and water. The food problem is also very serious. Due to high prices of food grains on the open market, purchase of grains at market prices is beyond the reach of poor villagers, with the result that at least five to six million people are hardly having one meal a day. There are many who are on the verge of starvation. The entire situation is most pathetic and heartrending.
We therefore appeal to your revered self to consider how your Society could best come to the rescue of these millions of souls who are in unimaginable distress. The Committee would like to suggest that members of your Society appeal to the bhaktas [devotees] attending your discourses to contribute their mite to the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund.
The Committee is prepared to send some of its representatives along with members of your Society wherever you wish to distribute prasada to the
hungry millions in the state.
As manava-seva is madhava-seva [“Service to man is service to God”], the Committee is confident that even a little effort by your gracious Society will go a long way in mitigating the sufferings of hundreds and thousands of people.
Yours ever in the service of the Lord,
T. L. Kapadia, Secretary
Andhra Pradesh Relief fund Committee
Hyderabad, India
My dear Mr. Kapadia,
Please accept my greetings.
With reference to your letter and your personal interview, I beg to inform you that without pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, no one can become happy. Unfortunately people do not know who God is and how to make Him happy. Our Krishna consciousness movement is therefore meant to present the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly to the people. As stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventh Canto, Sixth Chapter: tussle ca tatra kim alabhyam anent adye/ kim tair guna-vyatikarad iha ye sva-siddhah.
The idea stated in this verse is that by pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we please everyone, and there is no question of scarcity. Because people do not know this secret of success, they are making their own independent plans to be happy. However, it is not possible to achieve happiness in this way. On your letterhead I find many important men in this country who are interested in relieving the sufferings of the people, but they should know for certain that without pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead all their attempts will be futile. A diseased man cannot live simply on the strength of the help of an expert physician and medicine. If this were so, then no rich man would ever die. One must be favored by Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Therefore if you want to perform relief work simply by collecting funds, I think that it will not be successful.
You have to please the supreme authority, and that is the way to success. For example, due to the performance of sankirtana here, the rain has begun to fall after a drought of two years. The last time we performed a Hare Krishna Festival in Delhi, there was imminent danger of Pakistan’s declaring war, and when a newspaper man approached me for my opinion, I said there must be fighting because the other party was aggressive. However, because of our sankirtana movement, India emerged victorious. Similarly, when we held a festival in Calcutta, the Naxalite [Communist] movement stopped. These are facts. Through the sankirtana movement we can not only get all facilities for living, but also at the end can go back home, back to Godhead. Those who are of a demoniac nature cannot understand this, but it is a fact.
I therefore request you, as leading members of society, to join this movement. There is no loss on anyone’s part for chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, but the gain is great. According to Bhagavad-gita (3.21), what is accepted by leading men is also accepted by common men:
yad yad acarati shreshthas
tat tad evetaro janah
sa yat pramanam kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
“Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.”
The sankirtana movement of Krishna consciousness is very important. Therefore, through you I wish to appeal to all the leading men of India to accept this movement very seriously and give us all facility to spread this movement throughout the world. Then there will be a very happy condition, not only in India but all over the world.
Hoping this will meet you in good health,
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Here’s a separate letter to Giriraj (now swami)
Note the following sentence from the letter – “and actually, OUR TEMPLE should be the via media for feeding the poor with food and spiritual knowledge.” [Caps added to emphasize the statement]
Letter to: Giriraja
—
Tokyo
23 April, 1972
72-04-23
Bombay
My dear Giriraja,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated April 15, 1972 and I have noted the contents. This food distribution program is to be done very, very nicely as I have already written in my last letter. Generally people make a plea that why are there so many hungry and naked. So we invite all hungry and naked people to come to us and we will give them food and clothing and Krishna consciousness as well. This will attract the general public and there will never be any shortage of food-stuffs, so continue regularly. In Bombay there are many generous persons who like food distribution programs, and actually, our temple should be the via media for feeding the poor with food and spiritual knowledge. Our Bombay program should be based on giving Krishna consciousness through the English medium and distribution of prasadam without any discrimination. This will enhance our prestige and will accelerate our spiritual life as well. The temple program of arati, kirtana, bhoga offerings, discourses, etc. should continue. There should be no neglect of that program.
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
You quoted BG 18.5: “Therefore, in the lower stages, they should not be given up. Similarly, charity is for the purification of the heart. If charity is given to suitable persons, as described previously, it leads one to advanced spiritual life.”
Response: By quoting this do you imply that ISKCON is in lower stages? Also the key point here is “suitable persons”, which refers to a ‘brahmana’ or a ‘devotee’ as explained in purport to BG 17.20 below:
“In the Vedic literature, charity given to a person engaged in spiritual activities is recommended. There is no recommendation for giving charity indiscriminately. Spiritual perfection is always a consideration. Therefore charity is recommended to be given at a place of pilgrimage and at lunar or solar eclipses or at the end of the month or to a qualified brāhmaṇa or a Vaiṣṇava (devotee) or in temples. Such charities should be given without any consideration of return. Charity to the poor is sometimes given out of compassion, but if a poor man is not worth giving charity to, then there is no spiritual advancement. In other words, indiscriminate charity is not recommended in the Vedic literature.” (Purport BG 17.20)
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
You quoted SB 1.9.27: “To give charity is one of the householder’s main functions, and he should be prepared to give in charity at least fifty percent of his hard-earned money.”
Response: The key point is that it is householder’s main function and not that of a spiritual organization. Please read the below purport.
“The next item is charity. Charity is meant for the householders. The householders should earn a livelihood by an honorable means and spend fifty percent of their income to propagate Krsna consciousness all over the world. Thus a householder should give in charity to institutional societies that are engaged in that way. Charity should be given to the right receiver. There are different kinds of charity, as will be explained later on—charity in the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance. Charity in the mode of goodness is recommended by the scriptures, but charity in the modes of passion and ignorance is not recommended, because it is simply a waste of money. Charity should be given only to propagate Krsna consciousness all over the world. That is charity in the mode of goodness.” Purport, BG 16.1-3
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
You quoted SB 3.29.27: “The method of worshiping the individual soul is described here as either giving charitable gifts or behaving in a friendly manner, free from any separatist outlook…”
Response: These are instructions by Lord Kapila-deva to individuals aspiring to advance in devotional service (BG 16.1-3 states that charity is meant for the householders). A spiritual organization on the other hand by its very establishment in society is taking up a higher role and is meant to elevate others and that can’t happen by worshipping them. Theoretically we can even go around offering dandavats to every living entity we encounter and in this way worship them but it won’t benefit these jivas in any way.
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
Prabhupada: YOU TAKE PRASADAM. BUT WHY SALARY? WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF SALARY? WHERE IS VAIRAGYA, RENOUNCEMENT? SO IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES THE SALARY PROCESS SHOULD BE STOPPED. ONE WHO WANTS SALARY, HE CAN WORK OUTSIDE.
and I humbly suggest all salary be used instead to increase prasadam distribution.
Any objections to this proposal?
your servant
Payonidhi das
In the Mahabharata, it is stated:
dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca
amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya
yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca
vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya
“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”
Elsewhere in the Mahabharata (Vana Parva Chapter 180) Yudhisthira explains —
satyam danam ksama-silam
anrsyamsam tapo ghrna
drsyante yatra nagendra
sa brahmana iti smrtah
“A person who possesses truthfulness, charity, forgiveness, sobriety, gentleness, austerity and lack of hatred is called a brahmana.”
You will find that practically everywhere, charity is listed amongst pious activities which will elevate and purify, even the realized souls…
As a matter of fact, it is as natural for a devotee to be para-dukha-dukhi, to feel compassion for the suffering of others, as it is for a good tree to give fruits through its bramches…
Similarly, ISKCON being the main branch of the tree of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and gathering devotees who perform some service – seva – and express their compassion in different ways, according to their individual nature, thankfully does distribute lavishly nowadays prasadam to millions of people daily, through some of its branches and sub-branches…
Who would complain about that ?
Besides, since the duty of the grihasta is to distribute prasada, it gives many grihastas around the world an opportunity to perform their prescribed duty, by contributing somehow or other to the transcendental prasadam distribution performed through various channels…
As Priyavrata Prabhu is expressing, it is a win-win situation, where not only contributors and receivers are being purified, but it does also create a foundation for a Krishna conscious society, acting around the principle of daivi varnashrama…
For instance, while Maharaja questions having a Bhaktivedanta hospital, he may forget that as a grihasta Srila Prabhupada made a living and supported both his family and his preaching, via some pharmaceutical business, which was meant to cure some physical diseases or aleviate bodily pains. Besides, as we all have been or will be patients at some stage in our life, wouldn’t it be nicer to go to an hospital where doctors and nurses are devotees, where you can be served not only vegetarian food, but Krishna prasad and where they may be able to assist you spiritually till your last breath…?
This being said, we have to also put things in the perspective of varnashrama… Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja is obviously strict and this is to be appreciated from the side of a sannyasi, training brahmacaris…
But, the whole world is not made only of brahmacaris and sannyasis… The majority of people will associate with the opposite sex at some stage in their life, after the brahmacari ashrama and/or before the sannyasa ashrama… Thus, they will have to live within society and will hopefully turn the whole society into a Krishna conscious society, thanks to their being devotees…
In that line our previous acaryas have set an example, while taking interest or performing various activities: Srila Bhaktisiddantha, for instance, besides being a great spiritual teacher, was also a great astrologer; Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur besides being a prolific spiritual writer was also a judge; Sri Rupa and Sanatana were ministers with the Muslim government of the time, before joining Mahaprabhu; Ramananda Raya was the Governor of Madras, etc.
So, we cannot or should not be too fanatical and deny anyone the right to do anything else besides performing Harinam and distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books (or Maharaja’s books, as he honestly comments on that).
Moreover, despite whatever opinion one may have, we should not forget one of Srila Prabhupada’s main instructions: “if you love me, cooperate with each other”. Therefore, rather than waisting our time criticizing others for what they may say, write or do and run the risk of committing vaishnava aparadha, shouldn’t we rather focus on our seva as an offering of love to Guru, Krishna and the Vaishnavas…?
PAMHO AGTSP
You quoted: “The distribution of prasadam on a mass scale in ISKCON, apart from the festivals like Rathayatra and the like, started to the best of my recollection in Mayapur. After the Bangladesh war or floods, ISKCON Mayapur developed large covered shelters in which to feed large numbers of people. This was blessed by Srila Prabhupad.”
Yes, Srila Prabhupada was very much in favor of ISKCON Food Relief and it should go on. But ISKCON Food Relief was strictly restricted to people (refugees or otherwise) coming to our centers, festivals. I didn’t find a single instance in any conversation or letter where ISKCON Food Relief was operating beyond the 10 mile radius limit that Srila Prabhupada clearly delineated. In a room conversation About Mayapura Construction, Aug 19, 1976, at Hyderabad, H.H. Jayapataka swami stated that price of rice had gone up significantly and weekend attendance in Mayapura went up from twelve hundred to two thousand and ISKCON Food Relief was feeding them nicely at the center (not beyond 10 mile radius). Srila Prabhupada appreciated it very much. But when chief minister of Andhra Pradesh requested Srila Prabhupada to support food relief programs by GOING OUT, he simply rejected the idea. Current programs have transgressed the boundaries set by Srila Prabhupada.
Here is one more example of violating Srila Prabhupada’s instruction. Srila Prabhupada was very clear that even the restrictive 10 mile radius Food Relief Program shouldn’t be advertised and promoted even in ‘Back to Godhead’.
“BTG is not meant for advertising ISKCON Food Relief.”
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Rupanuga — Honolulu 2 February, 1975
I didn’t find a single reference to ISKCON Food Relief in BTG prior to 1978. The highest number of references to ‘ISKCON Food Relief’ in the BTG can be found in the year 1978, immediately after his departure.
Also, the very state of Andhra Pradesh whose chief minister was personally denied by Srila Prabhupada of any help on relief work became one of the first recipients of mundane relief work after his departure and this was advertised in the BTG.
From BTG, 13-06, 1978:
“And not long ago, when a cyclone killed tens of thousands in southern India’s Andhra Pradesh province, ISKCON Food Relief came through for the survivors with emergency food distribution.”
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
“So far prasada distribution, it is not a question of rich or poor. That will be Karma Kanda. Our program therefore is that we offer prasada to everyone. Make our temple so nice that everyone who comes is offered some prasada. Not that we are after poor men. It is nice that we are feeding 200 daily, but gradually try to increase. But do not advertise, we shall be self-advertising. And do not go to poor areas, this is not our philosophy. Our philosophy is prasada distribution, without discrimination rich or poor.”
(Letter to Giriraja, Honolulu, 15 May 1972)
your servant, Nityananda dasa
I think these are simple, up front, basic questions that some devotees may be neglecting. What’s my motive? Are there ways I can simplify my life and in that way make it easier to engage in activity that will more directly promote God consciousness? Whatever else I feel I need to do every day, is there any chance I can also engage in some direct preaching activity or has the very word “preach” become an anathema?
Can I go out every day and chant the Holy Name in public or would that be too embarrassing for me and am I afraid that someone might not think I’m cool or they might even think I’m crazy? How much does the idea of a “comfortable arrangement” matter to my mindset?
Am I unwilling to surrender to Krishna and tolerate the austerities that might go along with that decision? If I go back and carefully examine the nature of Srila Prabhupada’s mood and mission, how much will it justify my present lifestyle?
1. Dear Priyavrata Prabhu you have said
“Maharaja may have encouraged the mass distribution of prasadam, however, to suggest that these projects are impure or leading ISKCON down a path of mundanity is absurd and quite frankly very offensive to a lot of very pure devotees.”
After reading “ISKCON’s Midday meals statement” (see below) I found HH Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja’s concern appropriate and justifiable.
Please read the below mentioned statement and kindly answer my questions:
Is this our philosophy or is it path of mundanity?
Do we believe in this? Is this the teaching of Srila Prabhupada?
Will Srila Prabhupada be pleased with us?
Midday meals – ISKCON Food Relief Foundation – from http://www.delhimdm.com/vision_m.php
Who we are
• ISKCON Food Relief Foundation is a NON-RELIGIOUS, Non-Sectarian, and Not-for Profit Charitable Trust
• ISKCON Food Relief Foundation is not only feeding children, but it is also allowing the children to attend school and to be educated.
Philosophy
ISKCON Food Relief Foundation believes that food is a fundamental right. Inadequate nutrition not only affects physical, mental, and emotional health of children adversely but also restricts their learning ability, development opportunities and effective participation in the community.
We believe that a simple way of breaking the vicious cycle of hunger and poverty is by providing them regular and nutritious food AND THIS FULFILS ISKCON MISSION.
Goals
1. To promote the provision of distribution of sanctified meals all over the India; and
2. To promote food system education;
Vision
Removing hunger and upscaling learning opportunities for underprivileged children
2. Dear Priyavrata Prabhu, you did not answer my question yet, so I am repeating it:
-If prasadam distribution is “always transcendental” then why did Srila Prabhupada flatly refuse it in the case mentioned in SSR; Altruism – Temporary and Eternal?
Your servant
Gokula Candra Das
“Just like feeding the poor. It is also yajna. But the same thing, if it is dovetailed in consciousness, that becomes perfect. People are very much inclined to feed the poor with sumptuous food, but it can be done in a little different way, that the foodstuff offered to Visnu, prasada, that distribution foodstuff is better than ordinary distribution of foodstuff. Ordinarily, that is punya, pious activities, but when it is connection with Krsna, this is called yajna. Dravya-yajna. To distribute food and cloth, that is called dravya-yajna, but yajna can be said when it is done, dovetailing the activities with Krsna consciousness. That is yajna.” — Lecture Bhagavad-gita 4.28 – Bombay, April 17, 1974
In his podcast, Bhakti Vikas Swami spoke of trying to bring up his concerns to the GBC, but he did not talk about going directly to Mukunda Maharaja or Bhakti Tirtha Swami or Radhanatha Swami and speaking privately and respectfully with them. I imagine these would be fruitful and enlivening discussions between advanced devotees.
I have been slowly reading Maharaja’s biography of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada, “Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Vaibhava”, which is an amazing, important book — a masterpiece, actually. For that book alone, Bhakti Vikas Maharaja should be recognized as one of our heroes.
However, in spite of the many good points he made about mundane welfare work, etc., the spirit and the tone of the podcast, particularly the direct public criticism of leading preachers who are great devotees, was unfortunately calculated to drive wedges and disrupt our unity. Even in private it would be a mistake.
One of the many vocabulary words I learned from “Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Vaibhava” was “triumphalism.” It is true that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada and Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada often displayed a “triumphalist” style of preaching. These lion-gurus were out conquering the world on behalf of Lord Caitanya’s movement.
It does not bother me, however, that others have different styles of preaching. I found it refreshing that Radhanatha Swami did not feel compelled to denounce all the various teachers he met along his journey to Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet, or to explicitly argue how Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta is superior to theirs. For one thing, people who admire the saintly qualities of other teachers and yogis will never get a chance to taste the delicious nectar of Sri Caitanya Caritamrta if all the devotees they ever meet turn them off by criticizing their heroes. It is not mundane compassion but genuine concern for bringing people to the Lord’s lotus feet that motivates our less confrontational and more accommodating preachers. They are really good preachers as evidenced by the many good devotees they have attracted.
Not every act of kindness is motivated by false ego, and most often book distributors are successful by being ready to offer all respect to their customers. You usually have to say “he sadhavah” (and mean it) before you can say “sakalam eva vihaya durad caitanya-candra-carane kurutanuragam.” ;-)
It would be tragic if Maharaja’s message was not available for those who have ears to hear him. He and the mid day meals are gaining exposure from this so it is all auspicious!
All Glories to Sri Guru and Gouranga. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
It is written in the website of the ISKCON midday meal program that, “A Strategic program to address two of the most pressing problems of India: Hunger & Education.” Hunger obstructs education as children are forced to leave schools and take up menial jobs. Lack of education curtails opportunities for development and leads to the vicious cycle of poverty and hunger. Education empowers a child to explore his potentials and earn a decent living and live a respectable life in our society”.
So my question is, is it not better to give them the REAL EDUCATION of Krsna consciousness and the education about the MOST PRESSING PROBLEMS of not only India, but the whole world, i.e., how to overcome the VICIOUS CYCLE of birth, death, old age and disease? But we are feeding them so that they will get “education” of how to live a RESPECTABLE life in the society by respectfully engaged in eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
We don’t have anything to do with helping the poors for getting a “respectable” life and position in society, but our goal is to make each and everyone Krsna conscious.
dasanudasa
madhukantha dasa
All Glories to Sri Guru and Gouranga. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
For the last one year, I’ve been travelling with Bhakti Vikasa Maharaj, nonstop, to so many places in India as well. So many programs were conducted not only in cities but in so many remote villages of India which are unknown to most of us. In all these programs, the main attractions were tremendous Harinam, Heavy kirtan, awesome lectures, more kirtan, large book distribution and then sumptuous prasadam feast for all (thosands of people). Maharaj emphasizes on prasadam so much that He Himself announces after the class that, “there is a rule that no one should go without prasadam”. In this way so many people have become devotees, no matter “rich” or “poor”. Maharaj keeps on travelling vigorously, don’t stay in a place for more than 3-4 days and conducts so many programs every year where huge quantity of prasadam is distributed to all the people along with all the other Krsna conscious activities. And the result is more and more people are taking to Krsna consciousness.
Also, for some temple projects in South India, Maharaj has given the instructions to the Authorities that the main activity of the temple should be whole day Kirtan and whole day prasadam distribution. In this way as more and more people visits the temple and see the vast efforts of the devotees in the temple to feed each and everyone with Krishna Prasada, they will feel inspired to donate and there will be no need to collect donation in the name of feeding the poor (as so many mundane NGO’s are doing for name, fame and money).
So Priyavrata Prabhu, does this suggests that Maharaj is against prasadam distribution?
The difference is in outlook. Some people think that just by feeding poor they are doing service to Srila Prabhupada, while Maharaj is serving Srila Prabhupada by making more and more people Krishna conscious. No matter, “rich” or “poor”.
dasanudasa
madhukantha dasa
“Even though some of them do not strictly follow the rules and regulations of devotional service, on the whole they are devotees of Krishna and chant His name directly or indirectly.” Cc Adi-lila 5.232, Purport
A Vaishnava is ADOSHA DARSHI. A Vaishnava never sees other’s faults. Of course, every human being has good qualities and faults. Therefore, it is said sadhyana guna mitsanti. A Vaishnava accepts only a man’s glories and not his faults. ADOSHA DARSHI means ONE WHO DOES NOT FIND FAULTS IN OTHERS. He simply sees the other’s good qualities and he finds faults with himself. He is very strict with himself and he is always watching himself very scrutinizingly, detecting all of the defects he has in himself.
Sanatana Goswami followed the instructions of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and wrote a book on Vaishnava Etiquette. This book is the guidebook that directs a Vaishnava’s activities. The Hari-bhakti-vilasa describes Vaishnava etiquette as the behavior of a pure Vaishnava. Everybody should follow that standard. Here is how the Hari-bhakti-vilasa defines Vaishnava etiquette, its philosophy, and some basic Vaishnava principles.
“Since nothing can be successful without sadacara or etiquette, every action should be performed with proper etiquette.” We must act according to proper etiquette. The heart of a saintly person is free from contamination. The way a saintly person acts is known as proper etiquette. A way a saintly person acts is know as sadacara.
“If a person reads the six branches of the Vedas without practicing proper etiquette, he does not get purified, just as a bird flies away from the nest as soon as it grows wings, the Vedas leave him at the time of his death.
“Although one may have acquired the knowledge of all of the Vedas, but if one is not practicing the proper etiquette or if he did not become a Vaishnava, then all of this knowledge which he has acquired, will be lost at the time of death.
“Proper etiquette increases fame, opulence, longevity and destroys all inauspiciousness.
“O king, proper etiquette gives the results of dharma, artha and kama. Therefore a wise man very carefully performs the proper etiquette described in the scriptures.
“Thus one can understand that Vaishnava etiquette purifies the heart and the consciousness.”
– Never uses unpleasant words.
– Never tells a lie, even if it is pleasant.
– Never speaks ill of others.
– Does not become inimical to others.
– Does not insult women.
– Does not become envious of women.
– Never causes any harm to anyone; instead, always tries to do good to others.
– Does not mock people who are foolish, insane, distressed, ugly, cunning, lame, or fallen.
– Does not chastise anyone except sons and disciples to educate them.
– If someone insults him, leave the place silently.
– Never praises himself.
Just by listening to what has unfortunately become public while being available online, one may reflect and question on how much what was spoken is in line with the above mentioned principles of Vaishnava behaviour and code of conduct…
– SB 4.12.10 purport
this is a very important quote…
Just like Krishna is saying. Krishna… Arjuna first addressed to Arjuna. He said, açocyän anvaçocas tvaà prajïä-vädäàç ca bhäñase [Bg. 2.11]. “Oh, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one.” You see. How strong word He has used. So so far, if we want detachment from this material world, then we should be prepared to accept such cutting words from the master. Santäù pasya(?) chindanti uktibhiù. Uktibhiù. We should not make compromise: “Oh, don’t speak such strong words.” Required, it is required. So bandhur ätmä. Anätmanas tu çatrutve vartetätmaiva çatruvat. Anätmanaù.
(Bg 6.4-12 New York September 4 1966)
.
———————————————————————-
Dear Godbrother Prabhu,
Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Received your message.
Prabhupada established the system that only brahmanas – brahmin initiated
devotees – could worship and COOK for the Deities.
Prasadam is the remants of foodstuffs offered to the Deities.
You might know the story of Vadaraja, a Madhva sannyasi, who came to the
famous “annakshetra” – the famous “food distribution center” at
Dharmasthala, some 40 kilometres from Udupi, some 500 years ago, around the
same time as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Read about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmasthala
The story goes that Vadiraja was invited for “bhiksha” – “bhojan” – by the
Jain “Dharmadhikaari” of Dharmasthala. He refused to eat unless the food
was offered to a “vedic Deity”. The Dharmadhikaari agreed to install any
vedic Deity as per the instructions of the Sannyasi (Vaadiraajaa).
Vaadiraajaa instructed his disciples to go out of the then tiny village and
find a vedic Deity and he would install it and they would offer foodstuffs
to the Deity. They found a Deity of Lord Shiva, now famous as “Manjunath”,
and “the rest is history”.
The mid-day meals in question here are NOT cooked by brahmanas and offered
to “vedic Deities”.
Hence, how can it be prasad.
Another evidence is the “prasad” that was brought to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu by
the Buddhists. It was contaminated. As per the story in CC Madhya 9.53
So, you may claim that anything cooked by anyone is “prasad”, but this is
neither the vedic/vaishnav tradition, nor what Prabhupada taught during his
lifetime.
Therefore I say you are under a misconception – with all due respect – and
that borders on “sahajiyaism”.
You wrote: phalena parichiyate. How many children who take the mid-day
meals are becoming Krishna bhaktas? Personally, I haven’t seen such a “mass
movement” towards bhakti from those children that would be expected by those
who praise the mid-day meals program.
Therefore the IRGB [ISKCON India Regional Governing Body – of which I am Secretary] had approved the program, provided it was “accompanied by kirtan and lectures”.
On the ISKCON Food Relief Foundation website we find statement of objectives:
http://www.middaymeal.com/aboutproject.htm
> A Strategic program to address two of the most pressing problems of India
> : Hunger & Education. The Government of India has made education for
> children in the age group of 6 to 14 years compulsory, but poverty
> prevents the underprivileged from getting full value of their educational
> experience.
>
> Hunger obstructs education as children are forced to leave schools and
> take up menial jobs. Lack of education curtails opportunities for
> development and leads to the vicious cycle of poverty and hunger.
> Education empowers a child to explore his potentials and earn a decent
> living and live a respectable life in our society.
>
> ISKCON FOOD RELIEF FOUNDATION, has resolved to liberate the
> underprivileged from this vicious cycle by feeding the poor with
> sanctified and nutritious food.
Sounds 100% social welfare oriented without Krishna bhakti and vedic/
vaishnava culture. Sad state of affairs. Again, this is “just my humble
opinion”, what I understand from Prabhupada’s condemnation of social welfare
work, and as above, trying to pass off unofferable foodstuffs as “prasadam”.
Hope this meets you well.
das,
Basu Ghosh Das
P.S. Priyavrata Prabhu wrote in his comment, number 19, above:
“Bashu Gosh, also good point, however, I think it is unfair to label any kind of prasadam distribution as “social welfare activities.” Doing so, in my opinion, lessons to service of those involved. If the food is prepared and offered with love, then it is prasadam, and prasadam distribution is transcendental.”
P.P.S. My question stands: how is “the food prepared and offered with love” is the reason the hired help is there to cook, simply for their salary? It’s love of the money/salary, no?
Admittedly, we hire cooks for our Govinda’s Restaurants. The logic of doing so is that Govinda’s restaurants bring members of the public to ISKCON temples, as well as the income from Govinda’s supports ISKCON temples and projects.
Mid-day meals does NOT do so. It neither brings the children to the temples (they may be some exceptions where the meals are served in the temple – usually they are NOT), nor does it help the temple: it’s non profit!
PAMHO AGTSP
The story that you quoted from Narada Pancaratra is meant to enable develop faith in prasadam for those who don’t have any faith and/or are envious.
What about quotes like one below which state that by considering prasadam as ordinary food, one commits a great offence and goes to hell.
“Nityananda Prabhu replied, “These are the remnants of food left by Lord Krsna. If You take them to be ordinary remnants, You have committed an offense.”
PURPORT
In the Brhad-visnu Purana it is stated that one who considers maha-prasadam to be equal to ordinary rice and dhal certainly commits a great offense. Ordinary edibles are touchable and untouchable, but there are no such dualistic considerations where prasadam is concerned. Prasadam is transcendental, and there are no transformations or contaminations, just as there are no contaminations or transformations in the body of Lord Visnu Himself. Thus even if one is a brahmana he is certain to be attacked by leprosy and bereft of all family members if he makes such dualistic considerations. Such an offender goes to hell, never to return. This is the injunction of the Brhad-visnu Purana.”
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Madhya 3.99
As explained by Vaisvata Prabhu in his reponse (http://www.dandavats.com/?p=9990) to this open letter, the MDM program lists all the material benefits and identifies itself as “non-religous” entity and thus presents prasadam as an ordinary food. The promoters of the program as well as the recipients of prasadam also consider it as an ordinary food. How can they be saved from from this great offense. Any ideas?
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
PAMHO AGTSP
This is in regard to your comment that if one is not ready to surrender to the proper standard, then they should just continue with a lower standard that they are comfortable with. First of all one should acknowledge that one is not following the proper standard. Without such acknowledgement and desire to come up to the proper standard, how will one improve?
Also, someone not following the proper standard in their personal sadhana is one thing, but to not follow the proper standard while performing institutional role or duties is a completely different ballgame with serious implications. In the former case one is just responsible for his own self, in the later case one is responsible for lot of individuals and this can have serious implications.
So the callous attitude of ‘just keep doing what you are doing’ regardless of anything else isn’t right. Please give it a thought.
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=9969#comment-15065
We need to distinguish between actual Bhakti and sentimentality.
SENTIMENTALITY IS NOT BHAKTI:
“So Bhagavata begins with this word of Vedanta-sutra, janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah svarat. So it is the, in the beginning, Srimad-Bhagavatam is the explanation of the Vedanta-sutra. Srila Jiva Gosvami has recommended, therefore, one should learn Bhagavatam from a person who knows Vedanta-sutra. Sruti-grhitaya, bhaktya sruti-grhitaya. Bhakti should be generated, sruti-grhitaya, by studying Vedanta-sutra. Bhakti is not sentiment. Bhakti is the transcendental science.” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.10.1 – Mayapura, June 16, 1973
“Seva mean there is a sevaka and there is a master, sevya, one who is worshiped and one who serves. Then the process is called bhakti. Here it is also said, bhaktya. What kind of bhakti? Bhaktya sruta-grhitaya. Sruta, by hearing sruti, or Vedas. Completely on the basis of Vedic knowledge, that bhakti, not sentimental. Sentimental bhakti is also there, because the acceptance of Krsna is there. Therefore there is some value. But real bhakti, Sri Jiva Gosvami has commented that bhakti based on understanding of Vedanta-sutra is perfect, on the basis of jnana, knowledge, and vairagya. That is… And Krsna has also said, brahma-sutra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaih [Bg. 13.5]. Brahma-sutra means Vedanta-sutra.” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.12 – Delhi, November 18, 1973
Following is the reply from His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Maharaj on Priyavrata Prabhu’s statement:
Priyavrata Prabhu has stated that prasada distribution is always transcendental. This appears to be an axiomatic fact, but actually it is a statement that needs to be qualified, which I will do by offering some examples of how “prasada” or its distribution can be non-transcendental.
The following is from a conversation on farm management, on December 10, 1976, in Hyderabad:
Mahamsa: “Some people I know, they said that yesterday the prasada was not nice, and there was…
Prabhupada: Not nice, it is not eatable even by the dogs. But you are less than the dogs if you (prepare) such thing. I was surprised. You allowed a sweeper to cook. I was surprised. We have distribution prasada, not dog’s food. Such rascals as here. You do not know. I do not wish to discuss anymore on this point. You have murdered the whole thing in two days. Now if possible, bring them, bring them first class prasada, very palatable.
Similarly, when in Nairobi Srila Prabhupada was served unspiced boiled vegetables, he called it “dog food.” (Srila Prabhupada-lilamrta ch. 38)
Gaur Kishor Das Babaji Maharaja would reject his so-called followers for taking food at certain Vaisnava festivals. Babaji Maharaja considered food offered or cooked by people who were not properly following the Vaisnava principles to be the cause of falldown, even if such food was given at a Vaisnava festival and considered by all present to be prasada.
Sometimes devotees purchase food from a store (e.g. bread or sweets made from grains), then offer it and distribute it to others as prasada—even though offering food cooked by nondevotees is against the Vaisnava principles. In India, it is quite common that for big festivals, cooks are hired who are not chanting sixteen rounds, probably not following the regulative principles, almost certainly watching TV, and engaging in other activities which pollute the consciousness. We can go through the formality of offering what they cook, and then distribute it as prasada. But is that really what it is?
(continues…)
I have seen at some Govinda’s restaraunts that, even though the cook is an initiated devotee, he is not chanting sixteen rounds. In such cases, what is offered to Krishna may not be accepted by Him and thus what is distributed is not prasada (and therefore not transcendental).
Similarly, I have seen some cooks hired for the Midday Meals program who are clearly quite mercantile—they are there only because they are paid. I am not saying that all Midday Meals staff are unqualified, but if someone is cooking as a job and they don’t have any proper spiritual practices, we may go through the formality of offering what they cook, but we have to consider whether that is actually prasada.
Another case in which the result of prasada distribution is not transcendental is described by Srila Prabhupada in his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.26.13:
Sometimes it is found that an initiated person, in the name of prasada, eats very luxurious foodstuffs. Due to his past sinful life he becomes attracted by Cupid and eats good food voraciously. It is clearly visible that when a neophyte in Krsna consciousness eats too much, he falls down. Instead of being elevated to pure Krsna consciousness, he becomes attracted by Cupid. The so-called brahmacari becomes agitated by women, and the vanaprastha may again become captivated into having sex with his wife. Or he may begin to search out another wife.
Srila Prabhupada states that under certain circumstances the effect of taking prasada is not purifying, but actually causes falldown. The fault is not in the prasada but in the attitude toward the prasada. We can link this with Srila Prabhupada’s stating in a letter (of 13 May 1972) that simply distributing food is nonsense (even though the food was presumably meant to be prasada). Srila Prabhupada said that there must also be spiritual education. From this we can understand that if prasada is presented as ordinary food or if people believe it to be ordinary food, the purifying effect is going to be significantly diminished.
I question advertising (as is done for Midday Meals) that aims to induce people to give money so that children can go to school and in this way the nation will develop. Midday Meals advertisements hardly ever mention Srila Prabhupada or Krsna. (continues…)
Devotees who have joined this movement for the sake of propagating transcendental knowledge are sent to meet businessmen and tell them that we are feeding poor children to help develop the nation. The consciousness that is cultivated through such activity is mundane. If we regularly talk about food, money, poor people, and “developing the nation,” and show people photos of Bollywood stars who have endorsed our program, then how Krsna conscious are we going to be?
Even though Srila Prabhupada definitely wanted widespread prasada distribution and he did give some indications that we can distribute to poor people under certain circumstances, there are also strong warnings from Srila Prabhupada against making our profile one of mundane welfare workers, which is what is presently being promoted by some of our devotees.
hari-guru-vaisnava-dasa,
BVS
– But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu clearly showed his non acceptance of mayavadis, he rejected Damodara Pandit associating with mayavadis. Different is to preach to mayavadis or bring them to higher platform by giving them direct KC service. This engagement needs really careful and pure attempt. That may be the intention of Maharaja. I feel the minimum requirement would be to show superiority of monotheism over impersonalism and some more clear stamements especially as Maharaja is so great that he is influencing so many souls. Its great to read and I really liked that book but maybe philosophically little unclear. Many people who read his book may become inspired also to join a group of impersonalists he is mentioning. Or they may think SP just another of all this teachers.
– To the point of Priyavrata Pr. that ISKCON would not fail it is only because of concern and sincere desire to keep ISKCON in proper path. If we see ISKCON had many times been on the border of diviation and has been saved by pure attempt. So we should be always grateful for any attempt to keep it pure and on proper path. I appreaciate Bhakti Vikas Maharaja’s attempt but it could be also more privat.
– Its really sad that you almost can not eat at so many Govindas or temples in ISKCON because of simply the cooks are not qualified. Its just collection of money by cheap labor.
– The Midday prasadam distribution should take to heart and try to implement more and more direct preaching to its activities instead of all excuses.
Your servant
Damana Krishna das
Please, accept my obeissances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Sri Guru & Sri Gauranga.
I hope you are all doing well and are happily performing your devotional service.
As it is, it is important to concentrate on one’s service, before one may start analyzing and commenting about someone else’s service. One should understand that our service is granted by the spiritual master and spiritual authorities, by the arrangement of Krishna. In this line, Sri Krishna Himself states in Bhagavad-gita, that it is better to perform one’s duty, even imperfectly, rather than try to perform other’s duty, even perfectly !
This requires some humility, based on the awareness we may (or should) have of our own conditioning and limitations… This means that due to our experience in this birth (as well as from our karma inherited from previous births), we may have certain capacities and may lack others and have, as well, a certain approach and angle, by which we do, see and say things ! This means that unless one becomes a pure devotee who is known to be on the absolute platform, everyone is on a relative and somewhat subjective platform… Hence, we may argue endlessly with one another, due to various relative standpoints ! Therefore, one who is dhira, sober, refrains from endless and counterproductive arguments.
Besides, one has to also try and analyze one’s motivations: when we criticize, do we mean the welfare of others and of our Society or do we simply, directly or indirectly, try to promote ourselves…? This is also crucial, as placing one’s vanity forward, above and beyond higher interests, may not only lack elegance, but does also soon turn sour and transforms into what Srila Prabhupada called a disservice !
So, please, let us remember Srila Prabhupada’s instruction: “If you love me, cooperate with each other…”.
This being said, I would like to pick one positive point out of our dear Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja’s contribution, which should legitimately and collectively lead us to question how we can improve the quality of our offerings, in the course of preparing and distributing these midday meals…
In that regard, it is understood that despite the fact that a secular government may not allow open preaching and spiritual propaganda, still ISKCON is known to be the force behind the midday meal program and does get the credit for that.
We are a Society and one, or a few, of our prominent members (along with some of their followers) have questioned whether it is “prasadam” that we really distributed, and not just vegetarian meals…
I personally, and unfortunately, have not been graced (yet) with the opportunity to visit these kitchen and part-take in this great endeavor to distribute prasad everyday to thousands or even millions of children who have taken a pious birth in Bharat-varsa…
However, we understand, this is a large scale endeavor which requires the involvement of many donors and sponsors, as well as the support of officials, who will all be benefited for their punya and will gain sukriti…
Hence, we should respect everyone of them and thank them for their contribution to the welfare of others.
In this regard, let us open a parenthesis: Please, let us and our Founder-Acarya not sound like hard-hearted persons, or misers, i.e. kripanas… A vaishnava is merciful and compassionate. So, let us not sound as if we were only interested in “ringing bells and eating rice”, while others are starving and undergoing all kinds of miseries…
So, despite the fact that our primary concern is to develop pure love of God, Krishna prema, and distribute it to others, still the devotee considers positive, anything which will bring people closer to ISKCON and thereby, to devotional service.
In this line, there is the famous story of a vaishnava sannyasi who was begging alms door to door, and was once answered by a grihamedi: “O you, beggar, you have come to my door; hold on, I have something for you!”. Then, the man returned with some ashes and poured them in the cloth that the sannyasi was handing over. Surprisingly enough, the vaishnva sannyasi, rather than feeling offended, accepted the alm and thanked the man, telling him: “Thank you Sir, you have started your devotional service”. So, despite the fact that a movie star may say this thing or that thing, and be somewhat imperfect in his or her expression, we should still forgivingly appreciate their sincere contribution and respect the fact that they are trying to promote and engage in the service of the Vraja-bhasis, as per the example given of the Sandipani Muni School…
Similarly, numerous cooks, drivers and helpers are required, while some of them may not be of the highest spiritual standard… What to do…? It is a large endeavor and in any case, whatever be their level of spiritual advancement and their position in society, be they brahmacaris, vanaprasthas or sannyasis people have to maintain themselves, as well as their families, when they are grihastas…
So, despite so many objections which may arise from the side of the purists who may be able to achieve quality, but no quantity, we should still, both individually and collectively, try to see how we can improve the state of things and in this way dovetail any, intently or not, negative criticism, into a positive contribution meant for us to progress further, both individually and collectively…
Therefore, if we all accept the premises that we need the involvement of some modern equipment and amenities, as well as of some extra labor force, both financially supported by outside contributions and sponsoring, thanks to the concern of both the State and generous donators, remains the question of how to (better) offer this bhoga, in order to have it accepted and transformed into Krishna prasad, by the merciful Supreme Personality of Godhead, Who may already glance favorably upon the devotees’ endeavor and good intentions…
In this regard, in my humble opinion, as I hereby submit it at your feet, we may have two options and based on their knowledge and observations, devotees will have to decide which one to choose or even choose both…
The first option, is to at least try and have one brahmana devotee from ISKCON, supervise the cooking and, if possible, have everyone stop for a few minutes, when everything is cooked, before being transferred into containers for further distribution, in order to make either a sampling or a giant offering to Krishna, by the grace of Sri Guru… This could be done to a picture of the Deities… But preferably, one should have to be able to pause for a few minutes, in order to be able to make a nice offering…
Then, this or these brahmanas would simultaneously offer mentally all the food cooked in the local industrial kitchen or all these kitchens nationwide, so that everyone be rest assured to be distributing and further on, honoring Krishna prasad…
This is both based on manasi seva, which can be performed by some advanced devotees and on the fact that Krishna may most likely be favorably inclined to mercifully satisfy the sincere desire of His devotees to purify the mass of people by granting them the opportunity to honor Krishna prasad and thereby receive His mercy which will, in due course of time, enable them to become devotees themselves and go back home, back to Godhead…
Besides, installing a special Deity Who could become the Ishta Dev of Prasadam distribution, in more or less the same way as Sri Hari Dev is the presiding Deity of Govardhana Hill and Govardhana parikrama, may be the means to unify and pacify everyone, while simultaneously being the federating Sri Natha Ji who will enable so many more souls to faster cross over this ocean of material nescience…
If I may, I will end up with a smile and a personal recollection… Being born in 1956, I remember that going to school at an early age, the concern for children to be given proper nutrition was still there ten years after the end of the second world war. So, we were then given either some concentrated milk which the teacher would pour into our open mouth, or even better, a little bottle of chocolate milk…
What if at the time, this foodstuff had been offered to Krishna, what if at the canteen we had been served not only vegetarian food (which was not the case), but Krishna prasad…?
And what if, at some point, some “well-intentioned” persons had brought the whole process to a stop, due to their stating that we were not within a 15 miles radius of a temple (by the way, did Srila Prabhupada ever state that beyond it was OK if everyone would starve ?), that this was a mundane welfare activity, and their raising so many other objections ?
So please, dear brothers and sisters, dear spiritual uncles and aunties, let us be merciful… Let us extand Srila Prabupada’s family, for he built a house which is meant to host the whole world.
If we intend to do so, we have to become, as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, depicted a Vaishnava to be, tolerant and broad-minded… We cannot afford to be nitpickers. We have to be become mahatmas… seeing good in others and seeing with equal vision…
vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva sva-pake ca
panditah sama-darsinah
The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]. Bg 5.18
“A Krishna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, and an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone’s heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body. A Krishna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision.” S.P.
Hoping this finds you all well and blissfully engaged in seva
Sri Krishna Prasad Ishta Dev ki Jaya
Transcendental Prasadam distribution ki Jaya
Your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada
Puskaraksa das – GGS
Dear Radhananda Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
To say ” keep doing what you are doing regardless of anything else” is certainly a callous attitude. But that is not what I said. I said keep performing devotional service regardless of the fact that some devotees think other projects are more important and evince more surrender. I did not advice anyone to continue with anything “improper. I also said that it would be a tragedy if BVS message was not available.
I made a very general statement, if you find certain devotees or certain practices which you can show are” improper” you can address your concerns to devotees who have authority over the situation. But prasadam distribution in general is proper and a highly surrendered devotee may choose this service. I hope this clarifies my attitude on this topic.
sincerly,
Sita Rama das
Your are suggesting that we should be sama-darsinah – see everyone with equal vision and overlook all shortcomings. By your logic ISKCON should stop operating. If we see with a vision of uttama adhikari, that everyone is liberated, there shouldn’t be a need to preach, to distribute books. right? We shouldn’t be making a distinction between ordinary food and prasadam either. But this is all maya-vada. Srila Prabhupada’s attitude wasn’t like that. Please read the below quote:
Prabhupada: Sama-darsinah means you have no distinction what is sin and what is…
Guest (1): Sama-darsinah means to treat everyone as equal.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Sama darsinah means there is no distinction between sin and virtue. That is sama-darsinah. As soon as you see, “This is virtue, and this is sin,” it is not sama-darsinah.
Guest (1): Virtue and sin become the same in sama-darsinah.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is sama-darsinah.
Guest (2): In other words, the sin does not remain sin any longer.
Prabhupada: That is another thing. But he has no vision that “This is sin, and this is virtue.” That is sama-darsinah. As soon as you make distinction, you are not sama-darsinah.
Guest (2): In another interpretation, in…
Prabhupada: You may interpret in a different. Sama-darsi, this is plain word. Sama-darsi means there is no difference, that’s all.
Guest (2): But sama-darsi equals sama-darsi. The sin and virtue are the same.
Prabhupada: No, here… Yes, that is sama-darsinah because here it is said clearly, vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmana [Bg. 5.18]. A brahmana, learned brahmana, and vinaya, very humble… That is the sign of goodness. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini sunica. Sunica means dog. Now he is seeing a dog and a learned brahmana-same. Now, dog is supposed to be sinful, and this learned brahmana is supposed to be virtuous. Therefore his vision, the virtuous and the sinful, the same. That is sama-darsi.
Guest (1): I think that they have made a many mistakes in writing of the slokas.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. Now you are finding mistake with Vyasa, so who can talk with you?
Guest (2): No, but, but…
Prabhupada: Please excuse me. Please go out. Please go out. Don’t trouble. You are finding faults with Vyasa.
Guest (4): We only want you to be understood here.
Prabhupada: (shouting) I am not sama-darsi! I don’t say I’m sama-darsi! I don’t say, sama-darsi. So you say sama-darsi. Sama-darsi.
Guest (2): You should be sama-darsi.
(contd. on next comment)
Prabhupada: But I am not in that stage. I say because you don’t surrender to Krsna, you are sinful. That is my darsana.
Guest (4): So then you should be also seeing as sama-darsinah.
Prabhupada: No, why shall I? I am not in that position. I am not within that… I am simply repeating the words of Krsna.
Guest (4): Then that… You came to… Even your… (?)
Prabhupada: I am simply teaching the teachings of Krsna. That is my point. I may be sama-darsi, I may be not sama-darsi.
Guest (4): Not be, but you teach that we should worship the sama-darsi.
Prabhupada: Krsna says. I don’t say.
Guest (4): Ah! You say, Krsna says that…
Prabhupada: But that does not mean that one has become sama-darsinah. That is… That is his…
Guest (4): Then he is not following the guru.
Prabhupada: No. My position is simply repeating. That’s all. My position is.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Discussion with Indians — January 18, 1971, Allahabad
———–
So your proposition that everyone should be sama-darsinah and overlook the faults doesn’t work well for a missionary institution.
The whole thing with prasadam distribution is that it should be accompanied by philosophical presentation of Krishna katha. Please see the below quote:
Therefore the best humanitarian work is to give knowledge to the humanity, not that one is suffering for want of food and… If I give some food, that is good work, but that is not sufficient. I may give food; that’s all right. You give. We also give prasadam free. But that does not mean simply by giving prasadam, we are silent. We give knowledge also. This is Krsna consciousness movement. Food, automatically you have to give. That is… There is no prohibition. But at the same time: knowledge. Without knowledge-giving, if he remains ignorant… Just like the same example. If you have got some children, if you don’t give them education, simply feed them, that is not your proper duty. You must give knowledge.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.2.5-6 — Vrndavana, September 9,
1975
Prasadam destroys all sins, but that should be followed by an endeavor to advance spiritually. Just like when Ajamila chanted “Narayana” indirectly, his sins were destroyed, but we wasn’t transferred to Vaikuntha directly. He got a second chance, he went to hari-dvara, where he fully applied his mind in service of the Lord and then he got liberated. So the recipients of prasadam, also have to be encouraged to make spiritual advancement.
Prabhupada: Why not? But prasadam, not ordinary food. From all our centers you can distribute food, prasadam, because that prasadam means they will gradually become Krsna conscious. Otherwise if you give them ordinary food, they will get strength, and they will increase their sex desire, that’s all, problems. [break]
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — February 21, 1975, Caracas
So, we shouldn’t be thinking whats the bare minimum standard we can follow so that the food distributed is indeed prasadam. If we follow bare minimum standards, then it is likely that there will be shortcomings and food is not prasadam. If we instead strive to follow the highest standard, then even if there are shortcomings, it is possible that we are above the bare minimum standards. But if we set the bar low, we are likely to miss it.
If ISKCON has the capacity to feed poor people, they should do it. A vaishnava should have minimal qualification of feeling others pain and helping them.We should remember the isavasyam idam sarvam verse. It applies to all resources viz spiritual and material.Vaishnavas do not accumulate objects or save food and money more than necessary.We should give away the wealth that is in excess. Only persons in sattvic nature will get the mindset that what they have is enough. Normal humans will think any amount of wealth acquired is insufficient or that it can be used for future.If an iskcon center thinks that it has enough resource/wealth, it should extend arms to the society around itself. To accumulate more and more wealth is no better than investing in shares or life insurance firms. One should imbibe the basic lesson that God gives food and shelter to all living beings. Animals do not accumulate.We should accumulate only that much which is necessary.Its individual call to determine if one has enough funds to distribute to needy part of the society. Afterall the nature produces enough food. It is humans who accumulate and this results into hunger and poor part of the society.
Iskcon often quotes Steve Jobs speech about his exposure to hare krishnas. Afterall he seem to have had free food.It turned out that he became a big icon and iskcon likes to use this for its preaching. Nothing wrong!
Why not take the positive attitude and expect that there will be more big icons benefited by the food relief program in the future.?
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Maharaj is expressing a concern in the lecture which a lot of devotees share along with him. There is a general perception in the world today that we at ISKCON has become commercial/ mundane non-profit charity. Srila Prabhupada wanted Pubic Kirtan and Mass distribution of Prasadam to be done at large scale so that more and more people get the mercy of Krishna. The mood behind this was his compassion. We as his followers are supposed to imbibe the same mood and continue the programs for his pleasure. However, in some quarters the MDM and FFL is perceived as whole & soul of ISKCON activities for eg. at Bangalore. Maharaj was expressing the concern which is today spreading across the temples as this is an easy funding effort compared to book distribution etc. Srila Prabhupada wanted us to develop pure love of Godhead. Prasadam and Holy name connect us to Krishna. However if in MDM and FFL we become so engrossed that we forget the primary goal it will be not appreciating what Srila Prabhupada gave us. Lets see these things in a dispassionate manner for they have the key to take us further in our Krishna Consciousness.
Thanking you, your servant
To the contrary, ” one should associate with and faithfully serve that Pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others. ”
Furthermore, Srila Prabhupada comments in his purport:
The kanishtha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from the spiritual master and is trying to chant the holy name of Krishna. One should respect such a person within his mind as a kanishtha-vaishnava.
A madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service.
The uttama-adhikari, or highest devotee, is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikari is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the realized state of unalloyed Krishna consciousness.
According to Srila Rupa Gosvami, the association and service of such a maha-bhagavata, or perfect Vaishnava, are most desirable.
One should not remain a kanishtha-adhikari, one who is situated on the lowest platform of devotional service and is interested only in worshiping the Deity in the temple. Such a devotee is described in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.2.47):
arcayam eva haraye
pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhakteshu canyeshu
sa bhaktah prakritah smritah
“A person who is very faithfully engaged in the worship of the Deity in the temple, but who does not know how to behave toward devotees or people in general is called a prakrita-bhakta, or kanishtha-adhikari.”
One therefore has to raise himself from the position of kanishtha-adhikari to the platform of madhyama-adhikari. The madhyama-adhikari is described in Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.2.46) in this way:
isvare tad-adhineshu
baliseshu dvishatsu ca
prema-maitri-kripopeksha
yah karoti sa madhyamah
“The madhyama-adhikari is a devotee who worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the highest object of love, makes friends with the Lord’s devotees, is merciful to the ignorant and avoids those who are envious by nature.”
” Because we are trying to serve the Supreme Lord with all seriousness and without duplicity, we can expect the mercy of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is famous as patita-pavana, the deliverer of the fallen.
When Srila Satyaraja Khan, a great devotee of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, asked the Lord how a Vaishnava could be recognized, the Lord replied:
prabhu kahe, “yanra mukhe suni eka-bara
krishna-nama, sei pujya, sreshtha sabakara”
“If one hears a person say even once the word ‘Krishna,’ that person should be accepted as the best man out of the common group.”
(Cc. Madhya 15.106)
Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued:
“ataeva yanra mukhe eka krishna-nama
sei ta ‘vaishnava, kariha tanhara sammana”
“One who is interested in chanting the holy name of Krishna or who by practice likes to chant Krishna’s names should be accepted as a Vaishnava and offered respects as such, at least within one’s mind.”
(Cc. Madhya 15.111)
” One of our friends, a famous English musician, has become attracted to chanting the holy names of Krishna, and even in his records he has several times mentioned the holy name of Krishna. At his home he offers respect to pictures of Krishna and also to the preachers of Krishna consciousness. In all regards, he has a very high estimation for Krishna’s name and Krishna’s activities; therefore we offer respects to him without reservation, for we are actually seeing that this gentleman is advancing gradually in Krishna consciousness. Such a person should always be shown respect. ”
So, in this line, while quoting the vision of the humble sage endowed with true knowledge, depicted by Krishna in Bhagavad-gita, I was trying to appeal, so that one may not act in the way of this first category of devotee:
“A person who is very faithfully engaged in the worship of the Deity in the temple, but who does not know how to behave toward devotees or people in general is called a prakrita-bhakta, or kanishtha-adhikari.”
and, for instance, insult women, regardless of their position in society, even if they are faithful wives and duty-full mothers, which is a disgrace both for the author of these words, as well as for our Movement…
but rather cultivate the mood of the pure devotee:
” one should associate with and faithfully serve that Pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others. “
” In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanishtha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaishnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaishnavism.
One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master. ”
Hoping this finds you all well and happily engaged in service, in a cooperative spirit within ISKCON, the house Srila Prabhupada created to host the whole world,
I remain
Your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada
Das dasanudasa
Puskaraksa das – GGS
By going out *every day* and chanting Hare Krishna in public we can turn the tide both within ISKCON and in the society at large. Srila Prabhupada did it. Why can’t we do it?
72-05-13
Vrindaban
My dear Gurudasa,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated May 5, 1972, and I have noted the contents. You can accept Suri’s plan, it is very nice, so you execute it perfectly. That will be the grandest temple in Vrindaban. May be a little costly, but if you can collect Rs. 25,000 per month and also Gargamuni can collect Rs. 25,000 per month, then it can be done nicely.
In the Hindi BTG there are so many mistakes, spelling, grammar, and some places the philosophy is faulty with some other ideas mixed in; the printing is shabby, the second page is almost invisible. So this has to be improved somehow or other. Dr. Kapoor has remarked exactly. So you may inform Ksirodakasayi, and you try to help him for improving Hindi BTG.
You must construct something wonderful. Otherwise, it will be a discredit to you American boys. That will exalt the position of America in India. And in every temple food distribution must go on profusely with American food supplies. Have the Americans given us the food supplies, is there any tangible donation? Or is it simply promises? If we can supply some proof they have given us such and such amount of foodstuffs, some document, that will help us in all parts of the world as propaganda and for approaching your country’s government in other places for supplying us. So if you have got such document, kindly send me one copy.
If we open a branch in Madras, actually there are so many poor children there. Spiritual education and food, that is proper. Simply supplying food is nonsense. Spiritual education means just to inject in their ears about our philosophy, externally they chant beads, wear tilak, without any discrimination of Hindu or Muslim or anything.
So I am very much encouraged by your letters, and I am confident I have entrusted this Vrindaban project, which is one of the most important of our this ISKCON, to the right persons, namely, yourself, your good wife, Yamuna devi, and Ksirodakasayi Prabhu. So kindly offer the others my blessings.
Hoping this meets you all in good health.
Your ever well-wisher, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
ACBS/sda
Obeisances. Jaya Prabhupada!
There is a new book out (co-published from Torchlight and the BBT) called “Chanting Hare Krishna.” It is a compilation of quotes from Srila Prabhupada about chanting. There is one chapter especially about Hari Nama sankirtana. It is so inspiring. I think this book will encourage everyone to “get off of their seats and out on the streets!” Hare Krishna!
daso ‘smi,
nama prabhu das