Click here to hear/read transcripts of the first lecture of this 2 lecture series
TABLE OF CONTENTS
INTRODUCTION
Why this session is taken?
Devotees should think philosophically
One should be able to see problems using spiritual science
E.g. One need not be an astrologer to see problems in the
world
One need not be an astrologer to see someone deviating from
Krishna Consciousness
Why not leave this issue for the board room level?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom
level until the end
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions7
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
Meaning of maintaining unity in diversity
HOW SHOULD ALL OF YOU RESPOND?
1. Let time take it’s course 8
Sometimes time works against Krishna Consciousness
Ex persecution of brahmanas
2. We should just follow Srila Prabhupada and not invent
anything new
3. Understand that maya will attack ISKCON
Ex Play by Girish Ghosh
Maya will attack ISKCON leaders especially 9
4. Do not think badly about the leaders but understand if
there is anything wrong 9
5. Either explain it to others or pacify them 9
ISSUE OF RADHANATH MAHARAJA PLAYING BLUES 9
JOURNEY HOME ISSUES 10
Journey Home will not give proper understanding of Krishna
Consciousness 10
How to stop it? 10
1. Inform local temples to promote Prabhupada’s books 10
2. Tell them to read Prabhupada’s biography 10
3. Show people difference in quality between JH and SP’s
books 10
My experience of reading Srila Prabhupada’s books 11
4. Make proper policy to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books
11
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SRILA BHAKTIVINOD THAKURA? 11
1. It was not meant for mass distribution 11
2. Autobiographies should be there if it serves cause of
Krishna Consciousness 12
3. Journey Home is not serving cause of Krishna
Consciousness
CAN AN ACARYA FALL DOWN?
Usage of term acarya in different ways
1. Acarya could mean on the level of Prabhupada
An acarya on the level of Prabhupada do not fall down
Reference for a guru falling down
Quote on even if devotee falls, he does not become a karmi
2. One can act as an Acharya by following instructions of
previous acharyas
E.g. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructing others to be guru
Even if someone not mahabhagavata can become guru by
following mahabhagavatas
E.g. Even if the leader is killed, fight goes on
To the degree one follows Prabhupada to that extent one is
guru
HOW TO DEAL WITH RTVIKVADIS LIKE TIM LEE?
Understanding of rtviks
Perception of Tim Lee about ISKCON
Advise on dealing with such people
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
How to answer someone complaining about ISKCON?
Accept and explain them the nature of big organization
E.g. Indian going to America and committing crime
High level of corruption has entered ISKCON
Lot of good things happening in ISKCON
E.g. Preaching in Gujarat
Tell them about me
All ISKCON leaders are working very hard to spread Krishna
Consciousness
E.g. HH Jayapataka Maharaja
No benefit in associating with RITVIKVADIS
Why not sit together and work it all out
One should limit one’s speculation about the future
Situation in 80s
Illusion regarding the influence news will put on people in
the future
Article of Drutkarma prabhu
Why not American President & Head of communist party
come together and settle
things?
Things are not so easy to settle by coming together and
talking
Big leaders are convinced that what they are doing is all
right
GBC is thinking about doing something
People come up with their own reasoning
Why do people deviate
Maya is very strong
One should be afraid of maya
Do not compromise with mayavada
Mayavada is worse than Buddhism
INTRODUCTION
WHY THIS SESSION IS TAKEN?
A few days ago I gave a lecture about some points of concern
about ISKCON which was potentially controversial although no controversy has
erupted around it so far. I received a few questions about that which I will
answer now. “How should I advise my disciples on how should they respond to the
actions or questions posed to them by disciples of other gurus on the lecture,
especially when they live in a multi guru scenario?” Multi guru means in many
temples … not just temple but many communities of devotees, there are gurus of
different disciples where as in India, in particular and in some other areas we
find that most of the devotees are disciples of one guru. With the comment, “We
should not bring this debate from the board room to the grass rooms.” You know
what does that means? That there is some matter which should be settled at a
higher level and not just that junior devotees they argue among themselves and
I agree with that… I mean as I said when I gave that lecture, I am not on a
campaign. I feel that it’s just my duty to inform my disciples or anyone else
who wants to hear that there are certain problems which you should be aware of
because after all this is supposed to be a spiritual science.
DEVOTEES SHOULD THINK PHILOSOPHICALLY
Srila Prabhupada often spoke that it’s spiritual science,
bhagavat tattva vijnana. … that the science of knowledge of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead … so we should understand scientifically, it’s not just
all sentiment. And according to the science of Krishna Consciousness there are
certain signs which we should be able to recognize that something is not right.
We do tend to be … it’s another observation about our society … that we do tend
to despite Srila Prabhupada so much stressing that this is spiritual science.
We do tend to be not very scientific and we tend to be like a religion. The
atheists they criticize … one of their many criticisms of religion, many of
them which are … at least some are valid. One of the criticisms is that it’s a
crutch, you have all heard this, it’s a psychological crutch that you just, you
are feeling distress in this world and therefore you just take to religion and
you hope that there is something better going on somewhere else or that you can
imagine that there is a God or something like this. But that’s one reason why
Srila Prabhupada distinguished Krishna Consciousness from mundane religion,
which it is different. It’s supposed to be a spiritual science in which one
doesn’t just take a religion like a sleeping pill … like the class is like a
sleeping pill right? That you just join a religion and you think, “Well now I
am safe, do whatever” and then you just don’t think about anything. But rather
one is supposed to … ideally one is supposed to take to it with his
intelligence. Of course we can’t expect everyone to be like that. But Srila
Prabhupada, he specifically set up … one of his specific aims in ISKCON was to
train a new class of Brahmanas, thinking people. Brahmanas mean not just one
who learns but the best class of Brahmanas is one who can think
philosophically. But we do tend to get … many people who join, who are just
content to join and then have their thinking done for them. This is one of the
complaints of the atheists because they get their thinking done for them by
Dawkins [and] company but they protest that we have seen you just blindly
follow. So this is widespread in our society even amongst people who otherwise
might seem to be intelligent is that we see things which are not according to
the spiritual science and we just go along with it. The worse thing is we don’t
think about it all and we just presume that it must be right.
ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE PROBLEMS USING SPIRITUAL SCIENCE
See I got into lot of trouble few years ago, when I gave a
lecture saying that what we shouldn’t think that what someone says is right
because he is a guru but he is a guru because what he says is right. So around
the other way. So that wasn’t a very popular analysis but actually it’s a fact.
So if there are problems we should see. E.g. One need not be an astrologer to
see problems in the world I means it’s a … it’s like you don’t have to be an
astrologer to say or ______ or a _________ to see that the world is heading for
lot of problems. There is always told 2012 many people in the world think this
the world is going to end or there is going to be cataclysmic changes in 2012.
Well, definitely there will be lot of problems in 2012, guess what? There are
lot of problems already in 2011 and there will be lot of problems in 2013 also
because the karmic deficit, you could say that about budget deficits, the
karmic deficit is beginning to take in. Human race is getting reactions for its
grossly exploitive and sinful activities. I mean the actions are always there
but they are becoming more pronounced now. One need not be an astrologer to see
someone deviating from Krishna Consciousness. So similarly you don’t have to be
astrologer to see that if someone even if they are renowned to be very advanced
devotee or very pure or very charismatic and very successful in preaching but
if they whatever, however much they may be presumed to be on an advanced level
which they … then if they start to do things which are not Krishna Conscious
then they are not going to remain in Krishna Consciousness right long. They
already are not properly situated. So you don’t have to be an astrologer to see
that.
WHY NOT LEAVE THIS ISSUE FOR THE BOARD ROOM LEVEL?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom
level until the end
Then our society generally … you may say well ya leave it,
this should be dealt with at the
board room level. But generally it’s not dealt with because
I know … for some reason or the
other. When leading devotees start to … or if leading
devotee start to deviate then it’s usually
left until there is some really gross manifestation before
like at the last minute before
anything is said from the top level
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone
or may be that behind the scenes they are trying to do
something. But usually what happens
when someone is a big shot in the movement then they won’t
listen to anyone and they are
convinced that they are doing it right and all their
followers are adulating them and they are
able to somehow or other justify what they are doing by some
perversion of the philosophy of
Krishna Consciousness.
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions
And it may look that what they are doing is right because it
seems to be that they are getting
very good results but anyway … we have seen it so many times
and we should know it by
now, we have seen it so many times and therefore I feel it’s
my duty atleast to say something
about this.
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
How do you react about this if you are asked by disciples of
other gurus? Well if you want to take the time and the trouble and have the
patience to do so you could explain to them in the way that I just explained,
say that you know Krishna Consciousness society … you have to take sometime and
be somewhat expert otherwise you can brush it off. You may see well…one thing
is it’s very unlikely that they are going to listen to you anyway because if
they haven’t been trained in the spiritual science from the bE.g.inning then to
suddenly try to educate them it might be quite difficult. It’s not impossible.
If they have read Srila Prabhupada’s books they should have some idea about
that. Like I said I am not going to campaign, may be I should be but doesn’t
seem to work. It’s just like you know you have to let fate take its course. And
you never know things might get better or whatever. Matters may not come to the
horrible conclusion.
MEANING OF MAINTAINING UNITY IN DIVERSITY
Maintaining unity with in our society is also important.
It’s not easy especially in kaliyuga, in the age of quarrel to maintain unity.
Srila Prabhupada famously wrote about maintaining unity in diversity that
people have different outlooks and approaches. This is much quoted. Of course
Srila Prabhupada explained that in another letter where he said that there may
be different devotees working different way but they should all unite following
the instructions of the spiritual master. It’s unity in diversity not unity in
perversity which means that you just do whatever you like and say Jai
Prabhupada! Now and then and as long as you remain a bonafide member of ISKCON
you can do and say any damn thing you like. But first it should be ascertained
what are the orders and desires of Srila Prabhupada. Generally, we see that
people just start some program and without even consulting with others. Just
like I was telling about Mid-day meals. Did anyone get any GBC permission to do
that? They just started doing that. That’s just one, there are many examples.
Atma yoga all this kind of thing. And without first consulting with the GBC
they just start some program and then it just comes to be accepted as part of
the Krishna Consciousness movement. Whether it’s actually fulfilling Srila
Prabhupada’s desire that should be first discussed with others but …
[Atma yoga nonsense see here www.dandavats.com/?p=1557]
WHY NOT LEAVE THIS ISSUE FOR THE BOARD ROOM LEVEL?
1. Deviations of leaders are not dealt at the boardroom
level until the end Then our society generally … you may say well ya leave it,
this should be dealt with at the board room level. But generally it’s not dealt
with because I know … for some reason or the other. When leading devotees start
to … or if leading devotee start to deviate then it’s usually left until there
is some really gross manifestation before like at the last minute before
anything is said from the top level
2. Leading devotees usually do not listen to anyone or may
be that behind the scenes they are trying to do something. But usually what
happens when someone is a big shot in the movement then they won’t listen to
anyone and they are convinced that they are doing it right and all their
followers are adulating them and they are able to somehow or other justify what
they are doing by some perversion of the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness.
3. Good results by such leaders create illusions And it may
look that what they are doing is right because it seems to be that they are
getting very good results but anyway … we have seen it so many times and we
should know it by now, we have seen it so many times and therefore I feel it’s
my duty at least to say something about this.
HOW TO ADDRESS CONCERN OF DISCIPLES OF OTHER GURUS?
How do you react about this if you are asked by disciples of
other gurus? Well if you want to take the time and the trouble and have the
patience to do so you could explain to them in the way that I just explained,
say that you know Krishna Consciousness society … you have to take sometime and
be somewhat expert otherwise you can brush it off. You may see well…one thing
is it’s very unlikely that they are going to listen to you anyway because if
they haven’t been trained in the spiritual science from the beginning then to
suddenly try to educate them it might be quite difficult. It’s not impossible.
If they have read Srila Prabhupada’s books they should have some idea about
that. Like I said I am not going to campaign, maybe I should be but doesn’t
seem to work. It’s just like you know you have to let fate take its course. And
you never know things might get better or whatever. Matters may not come to the
horrible conclusion.
HOW SHOULD ALL OF YOU RESPOND?
So what should you do? How should they respond to reactions
or questions? I guess keeping the peace, what can I say, it’s like living a lie
you could say to some extent. What can you do? I mean if I can’t do anything
then what can you do?
1. LET TIME TAKE ITS COURSE
So we just have to wait for time to take its course that’s
all. Time is also representation of Krishna. Sometimes time works against
Krishna Consciousness. E.g. persecution of Brahmanas. I mean there was a time
when … it happened several times in the history of the universe that the
Brahmanas have been killed or persecuted or not allowed to perform sacrifice
and you may say, “Well why does Krishna allows that?” People want to do yajnas
to worship Visnu. So why does Krishna allow them to be persecuted by demons?
Just Krishna waits for the demon’s offences to become pakka just like a boil to
become ripe so that it’s ready to pop and then He comes as Narasinghadeva, as
Krishna Himself. So we may say why is the Krishna Consciousness is going
through all these things? Well it may be for some time and then …
2. WE SHOULD JUST FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADA AND NOT INVENT
ANYTHING NEW
We can pray that at some point of time we will just come to
the point of remembering the very simple thing which Srila Prabhuapada always
taught us which is we just have to follow him. We don’t have to invent anything
new. Just follow him with firm faith that he is the empowered representative of
the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We don’t have to add anything or subtract
anything. Just follow that’s all. When different people have done their circus
acts of you know someone is a rock star and someone is a welfare worker, ISKCON
ancestors saint … what’s her name? You know mother Teresa. You know someone is
the Sun King [This was Bhagavan Das, zonal acharya]. We've has so many
different clown acts. Eventually we might just understand that being a guru in
ISKCON me
Answer:simply to follow Srila Prabhupada, that’s all. Just
do … follow what he has told us to do and instruct others to do that also. So
it’s difficult to understand all of this. But we shouldn’t be discouraged.
Whatever anyone else may do, we can follow Srila Prabhupada’s simple instructions.
They are not difficult to follow.
3. UNDERSTAND THAT MAYA WILL ATTACK ISKCON
We should think or understand that it should be expected
that maya will attack ISKCON because ISKCON is the movement that is meant for
defeating maya and establishing Krishna Consciousness in the world.
9 Ex Play by Girish Ghosh There is that one play by one Girish
Ghosh which Prabhupada had translated into English from Bengali and the
devotees used to perform that. Still in Mayapur the Bengali devotees they
sometimes, they perform that. And it shows Kali, the personality of Kali how he
received when Caitanya Mahaprabhu came and how the personality of Kali was so
much disturbed. It’s a good play. We should get that in Hindi and other
languages also. Prabhupada approved it. Even some … one devotee asked Srila
Prabhupada, “Well how can we perform this play? It’s just written by some
Girish Ghosh, he is not a pure devotee.” Prabhupada said, “Well it’s a good
play. Why not?” So it was very effective and they used to perform that in New
York and people come and pay to see it and they would appreciate it very much.
Maya will attack ISKCON leaders especially So we can expect that maya and her
agents such as the personality of Kali will attack this movement and especially
we can expect that she will attack the leaders because if you get one leader
then you get so many followers all at once.
4. DO NOT THINK BADLY ABOUT THE LEADERS BUT UNDERSTAND IF
THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG
But anyway anyone who has come to a position of leadership
in Krishna Consciousness we can understand that they are great personalities.
We shouldn’t think badly of them but at the same time we should understand that
if they are doing something which is not in the line of Krishna Consciousness
then something is wrong, something is seriously wrong.
5. EITHER EXPLAIN IT TO OTHERS OR PACIFY THEM
So we could attend to explain this to others or otherwise we
could just pacify them and say that “Well there is an issue. Ya but let’s see
what happens.” You could say something like that. But it seems that no one
wants to make it an issue. Rather than discuss all these things so … alright
let it remain like that. I guess I have done my duty.
ISSUE OF RADHANATH MAHARAJA PLAYING BLUES Someone sent me an
email in which “So and so swami is playing a blues composition with a western
band. I find this depressing and discouraging for those who want to follow
Prabhupada and our acaryas.” Ya naturally it can be discouraging. You look up
to people and then they do things that disappoints. Just like children like to
look up to their parents then if they see their parents acting in a bad way
they become disappointed. “How can this be accepted?” Well you don’t have to
accept it. “And how did those who want to please Prabhupada and his sincere followers
take this?” Well just understand according to this what I am telling you.
JOURNEY HOME ISSUES
And another question about this “I come across newer
devotees who are more attracted to reading such and such a book, autobiography
instead of Prabhupada’s books. This happened to me and I ended up discrediting
that book and telling devotee to avoid such books and instead read Prabhupada’s
book. First, I have not read it, nor do I intend to, nor do I have the time but
I have seen some excerpts in which so and so swami claims to receive the Hare
Krishna mantra from the river Ganges before he met Srila Prabhupada. This looks
very strange and sounds like self-aggrandizement. Do you think it is wrong to
openly discredit such a works in your devotees?”
JOURNEY HOME WILL NOT GIVE PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF KRISHNA
CONSCIOUSNESS
Actually it’s not an issue but what happens is people come
newly and they are given this book, which I say is an act of violence, to give
people this book. They should give people Prabhupada’s books. If they get this
book first they are going to be … it’s going to be very difficult for them to
have a proper understanding of Krishna Consciousness either. He gets started in
the wrong way but on the other hand what can we do.
HOW TO STOP IT?
1. Inform local temples to promote Prabhupada’s books I
would take it up with the local ISKCON authorities and tell them that look we
should promote Srila Prabhupada’s books.
2. Tell them to read Prabhupada’s biography or you could
tell them if you like to read biographies read Prabhupada’s biography. It’s a
lot more Krishna Conscious. But you know what happens people come new and then
there is this whole hype going on and they get carried away and new people how
much they can understand philosophy.
3. Show people difference in quality between JH and SP’s
books. You can may be tell them, “Ok that’s very good. But if you actually want
to understand what Krishna Consciousness is and get instructions and then read
Prabhupada’s books.” And you could may be read a little bit with them and just
show them what is the difference in quality. My experience of reading Srila
Prabhupada’s books I mean I remember when I first started reading Prabhupada’s
books… then and now also even after so many years I was just astounded by the
quality of Prabhupada’s books. This is something … I read so many books by so
many intelligent people, so many insights and religious books and scriptures,
translation of scriptures but reading Prabhupada’s books was just really a
revelation. Very clear that Srila Prabhupada is a person in touch with reality,
actual reality. He is not speaking from this plane at all. He is completely
different from anything else. Every word is just full of spiritual meaning. It
doesn’t appeal to the mind, to the senses, the e.g ego, or even the mundane
intelligence, completely from the spiritual platform. So you could just sit
down and read … especially I often mention that first verse of Srimad
Bhagavatam that just that one verse … of course it’s a long verse but there is
so much in there. That one verse of Srimad Bhagavatam has got more actual
spiritual substance then all the Bible, Koran and Buddhist books and even all
the Upanishads, and everything put together and then you read verse 2 and … the
first three verses of the Bhagavatam are just … actually the first two verses
especially … The third verse can be especially appreciated by very advanced
devotees but the first two verses, they are just revelatory. So you could try
doing that but don’t expect to have too much luck.
4. Make proper policy to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s
books. You could say to the local ISKCON authorities that they should … just
you could appraise them of your concerns about this and then some policy could
be made that we distribute Prabhupada’s books. Actually as I said before
Prabhupada himself didn’t say that we should only distribute his books but some
temples like to do that because it makes it easy because then you don’t have to
sort out all the good books from the not so good books written by others apart
from Prabhupada. The problem with that is that some of them are very good and
should be distributed while some of them are not at all good and shouldn’t be
distributed. But if you make such a distinction then out of sentiment some people
get upset. And then you get some temples where you can’t even find Prabhupada’s
books for sale. There are all kind of other books for sale, even books by
non-devotees, there are karmi translations of sashtra, all kind of strange
books. And time to … or may be its not time, may be you have to wait for the
time to offer ISKCON back to Prabhupada.
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA?
WHAT ABOUT AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA?
1. IT WAS NOT MEANT FOR MASS DISTRIBUTION
Just to finish this “I have heard that Bhaktivinoda Thakura
wrote an autobiography of his early years. I have read it online.” Well that
was never meant for mass distribution. He himself wrote that it’s just my …
It’s like the Vedas, they were never meant for writing down and being printed.
Sruti the original Vedas are only meant for oral transmission. So something
they are not meant for wide distribution … So that autobiography of Bhaktivinoda
Thakur was specifically meant for his one son who requested it, Lalita
Prasad. 12
2. AUTOBIOGRAPHIES SHOULD BE THERE IF IT SERVE CAUSE OF
KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS
About autobiographies and biographies of devotees,
should they be, should they not be? They may be if it serves the cause of
Krishna Consciousness. That’s all, if people are benefitted by that.
3. JOURNEY HOME IS NOT SERVING CAUSE OF KRISHNA
CONSCIOUSNESS
In particular, one under discussion. I don’t think that
people are at all benefitted by it. They might be carried away on the waves of
mundane sentiments but as far as Krishna Consciousness is concerned which
begins with distinguishing spirit from matter, there is nothing in there
whatsoever to help. CAN AN ACARYA FALL DOWN? So a related question – “Can an
acarya fall down?” Well one point to understand and this is not … I am not just
trying to _____ the issue here.
USAGE OF TERM ACARYA IN DIFFERENT WAYS
This is not equivocating is that the term acarya is used in
different ways.
1. Acarya could mean on the level of Prabhupada In the very beginning
of his _____ on Caitanya Caritamrita, Srila Prabhupada refers to an acarya in
the true sense of the term. So acarya can mean on the level of Prabhupada,
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Ramanujacarya, can also mean someone who has two or
three students who he teaches. It can’t mean he is teaching them dancing or
something which is not directly Krishna Conscious. An acharya on the level of
Prabhupada do not fall down So obviously devotees on the level of Prabhupada,
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati they don’t fall down. Reference for a guru falling
down We do have quote in Mahabharata, quoted in Srila Prabhupada’s books, guror
apy avaliptasya käryäkäryam ajänataù utpatha-pratipannasya parityägo vidhéyate.
Even if one is a guru, the most respectable position but if he is not properly
situated, if he is hopelessly addicted to sense gratification. He was properly
situated but now isn’t properly situated, doesn’t know how to instruct
properly, he should be fully given up. Now this was spoken by Bhisma to
Parasurama, his guru, when Pasarsurama said, “Hey you come, fight with me” and
Bhisma said, “Damn it I am going to fight with you.” So you may say, “Well
Parasurama he wasn’t the spiritual guru, he taught the science of weapons. But
that same verse is quoted by Jiva Goswami in his sandarbhas in relation to
spiritual guru and Prabhupada quotes it in that context also. So yes it is
possible but then again we should see sastras. What is that? Quote on even if
devotee falls, he does not become a karmi na vai jano jätu kathaïcanävrajen
mukunda-sevy anyavad aìga saàsåtim smaran mukundäìghry-upagühanaà punar vihätum
icchen na rasa-graho janaù That Narada says to Vysasa that a devotee doesn’t
fall down, he doesn’t become like a karmi. Even if he falls, he is still a
devotee.
2. One can act as an Acharya by following instructions of
previous acharyas and Srila Prabhupada said that one can act as an acharyas by
following the instructions of previous acharyas. E.g. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
instructing others to be guru Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself said, yäre
dekha, täre kaha ‘kåñëa’-upadeça ämära äjïäya guru haïä tära’ ei deça Who did
he say this to? He would say this, “Whoever you meet, instruct them in the
science of Krishna Consciousness, in this way become a guru and deliver the
land.” He said this to whoever He met. So He just meet people, infuse them in
Krishna Consciousness and go on and tell them, “Now you be a guru on My order.”
Even if someone not mahabhagavata can become guru by following mahabhagavatas and
Prabhupada often quoted this. So they may not be fully qualified or trained but
there is such a need for gurus or people to instruct in the science of Krishna
that even if someone who is not qualified on the level of mahabhagavata, he may
instruct others by following the instructions of the mahabhagavata.
14 E.g. Even if the leader is killed, fight goes on So it’s a
fight, in fight some people will be killed. Prabhupada gave that example …
actually from Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati, he said, some people will be killed
but still the fight has to go on. Even some of the leaders of the troops but still
the fight has to go on. So we should all understand that just like you might be
fighting and the leader of your platoon, he gets killed but still there is the
general, you have to follow him so the leader of the platoon, he has to take
orders from the general. So like that. To the degree one follows Prabhupada to
that extent one is guru The gurus in ISKCON should be understood as they are
followers of Prabhupada and as much as they follow Prabhupada they are
qualified to be guru and if we don’t follow Prabhupada then we are not
qualified to be guru that’s all. If they fall away it’s because Krishna didn’t
think them fit to represent Prabhupada anymore. So if we think that we are
independently powerful then that’s maya. Prabhupada himself said, “I am just
doing what my guru told me. That’s all”. It’s simple matter. You just have to
follow. So don’t be discouraged. You can go on. Others may fall away but you
can go on. Others will fall away; you can expect that.
HOW TO DEAL WITH RITVIKVADIS LIKE TIM LEE? UNDERSTANDING OF RITVIK
Now just one other point, the one who asked this question
said that he got a mail from Tim Lee, Tim Lee that’s his name. He was initiated
by Prabhupada as Puranjana Dasa. So he is very dedicated promoter of the ritvikvada
which is the idea that only Prabhupada could initiate, Prabhupada could never
have meant that anyone else should initiate after him because how could anyone
fall down. That’s his idea. So now we may think that well let me try and work
everything out here what’s going on. But again there is a spiritual science.
It’s not just by one’s intelligence one can understand Krishna. One of Caitanya
Mahaprabhu’s most important instructions is asat sanga ei vaisnava acara, to
give up bad association.
PERCEPTION OF TIM LEE ABOUT ISKCON
So Tim Lee no doubt is from his own perspective very sincere
about what he is doing. He is very dedicated to what he is doing. No doubt,
sincere it’s like you know sincere thief… Prabhupada… sincere atheist, honest
thief. So he can’t see any good in anything in ISKCON. He thinks from his
perspective, everything in ISKCON is bad and his duty is to warn everyone that
ISKCON is a dangerous cult which promotes pedophilia (?) and black marketeering
and so many other things. It’s a sex cult according to him … which is not true,
which is fanatical.
ADVISE ON DEALING WITH SUCH PEOPLE
So my advice, if you want to take it, is don’t associate
with him, don’t read his stuff. You can’t get Krishna Consciousness by floating
around on the internet and just looking up everything that’s there. Find
saintly association, it is available in ISKCON and stick with it. And don’t try
to understand everything by your own mind also. Intelligence has to be
exercised but one of the means to exercise the intelligence is to know that we
can’t understand everything with our intelligence. We can’t examine everything
in the world and then come to a conclusion. That’s not possible because even if
you examine everything in the world, by the time you finish doing that there
will be some other thing. So you will never come to an end. At some point one
has to make a leap of faith. And if one is sincere, Krishna will help him. Ok
that’s all I want to say for now unless any of you have any questions about
this.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
HOW TO ANSWER SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT ISKCON?
Q1. If any person comes and say this is also in Krishna
Consciousness…
Ans. Even common people may say that’s true. Accept and
explain them the nature of big organization When you are distributing books
some people may say, “Well this is going in ISKCON that is going on in ISKCON”
and you can say, “Ya” You can tell them, “Ya there are some bad things. It’s in
a big organization you can expect that there will be some bad things. Not
everyone who joins will be completely sincere but that doesn’t mean that the
whole organization is bad. E.g. Indian going to America and committing crime
It’s just like someone from India may go to America and may commit a crime. So
would you judge from that that everyone in India is a criminal or every Indian
who goes to America is a criminal? Is that a reasonable conclusion to draw? You
have to see the overall activities. High level of corruption has entered ISKCON
Ya there is a lot of what should not be within ISKCON. But that doesn’t mean
that the whole purpose of the organization is wrong, the whole society is
corrupted. Actually in some ways I would say that a high level of corruption
has entered our movement. This is a kind of thing that Tim Lee and company like
to quote out of context. But more at the philosophical level then the … there
is also at the behavioral level. But again we can’t say it’s all bad. Lot
of good things happening in ISKCON Lot of people are chanting Hare Krishna,
there is lot of ratha yatras going around, lot of Prabhupada’s books are being
distributed, these are all good things. E.g. Preaching in Gujarat You can see
here. Just going around with me in the last few days and we are going around
Gujarat, right different places and so many people are taking up Krishna Consciousness
in a good spirit, feeling spiritual enlivenment by doing that. We can’t say
that’s all false. We are not cheating them. We are not traveling around place
to place to cheat people. We are only speaking the message of Bhagavad Gita
which is given to us by Prabhupada, right? We are distributing Prabhupada’s
books, right? Giving them prasadam… these are not bad things right? Atleast you
can judge for yourself what you are part of this little group here in a small
town in Gujarat. It’s all selflessly for the sake of serving Prabhupada and
Krishna, is it not? You are getting training in spiritual practices, spiritual
philosophy according to guru, sadhu and sastra. So you can tell people, “Ya”,
you can say, “Ya there are some bad things.” But that’s not the whole purpose
of the movement or that everyone is bad. Tell them about me Sometime they talk
about big leaders they are just exploiting you and making a comfortable life.
Well you can tell them that you know a big leader and I am not taking your
money, I am not living … Well I guess it’s comfortable compared to the people
living in jhopad patti, just over there, slightly comfortable you could say but
certainly not luxurious living. All ISKCON leaders are working very hard to
spread Krishna Consciousness So atleast one thing I will say that they are all
working very hard. I don’t see any of the leaders in ISKCON simply exploiting
people; I don’t see that at all. They are all working hard to spread Krishna
Consciousness. And if they are corrupt then Krishna will look after them, maya
will ... But I see all the leaders they are working hard. E.g. H.H. Jayapataka
Maharaja Jayapataka Maharaja, for years people were telling him you got to rest
more, sleep more, he wouldn’t and eventually he got this severe stroke and he
is paralyzed and still he is going on traveling all over the world and
preaching. I mean what more? Anyone would say that alright now if he retires
it’s alright, let him just sit but he won’t, he is addicted to preaching. So I
don’t see that’s a …They don’t have any blame. No benefit in associating with RITVIKVADIS
Just to see all bad that is not a beneficial attitude, it doesn’t help anyone.
That’s why Tim Lee and RITVIKVADIS and company … what they say it’s not all
untrue, they may be exaggerated but it’s not all untrue but it may not help us
to hear it from persons who by associating with them, I don’t see anyone ever
benefited by associating with them, may be they are trying to save people from
associating with people like me, terrible gurus of our movement. Anyway you
have to choose.
WHY NOT SIT TOGETHER AND WORK IT ALL OUT?
Q2. Maharaja do you think it is a better idea if this
particular leader in question and yourself and some senior sannyasis they sit
together and … Ans. Why don’t we all sit down together and work it all out?
Well there was an article in Back to Godhead many years ago by Drutakarma
prabhu. This must have been in the 80s. One should limit one’s speculation
about the future Situation in 80s During the 80s, pretty much everyone in the
western world was sure that it’s just a matter of time between the befall Nato
powers … you know what Nato is? America, Britain, France, the western powers.
They go to war with the Soviet blocks specifically the USSR. It’s going to be
big Nuclear war and there will be mass destruction. Some of our devotees in
England, they were running a successful business selling, making nuclear
shelters and all this … Even one of our gurus who is no longer with us made
spent (?) lots of money making nuclear shelters with canned food and all pretty
much everyone was sure (?) and those people … some people were saying that no I
don’t … they would go and see some people, “You can buy these things to help
you survive after the nuclear blast.” They said, “Forget it. When the bomb
drops, I just want to be right underneath it.” And there were films made. I saw
both, one was made in America, it’s called, “The Day After.” All our devotees
saw it. I went to see it with Prabhuvishnu Swami actually before I took
sannyasa. It’s called “The Day After” and it showed like what would happen if
the Nuclear bombs drop in, what would it be like afterward and then in Britain
they made one also because they thought that “The Day After” was too optimistic
and they showed more like what it really be like and it would be really
miserable. Anyway I am getting on digression. Just goes to show that what you think
will happen … Illusion regarding the influence news will put on people in the
future I was just reading one of the earliest BTGs, it was 67 or 68 and in the
editorial he was talking about now in the modern age we have news from all over
the world and that’s going to force people to be honest and he was convinced
that the world is going to change because the news we can’t hide and people
can’t be corrupt. But what happened was that certain people took over the
control of all the news channel and everything so the news became just another
means of propaganda. So it’s interesting that people think that it’s going to
happen but it doesn’t happen like what they think. So that’s why it’s better to
limit our speculation about the future to saying that definitely birth, death,
old age and disease is going to be … anyway coming back to the point
Article of Drutkarma
prabhu
Why not American President & Head of communist party
come together and settle things? Drutakarma wrote an article for Back To
Godhead saying that why don’t Ronny and Leonid … that me
Answer: Ronald Reagan, the President of America and Leonid
Brezhnev the head of the communist party in Russia … why don’t they just don’t
get together and sit down and talk together and sort everything out and everything
will be ok? That did happen actually after _____ and then there came
_____________ and ______________ and then there came the famous … what’s that
guy with a black dot on his head? Oh! Come on… it’s famous name. He had the one
who had cut up the USSR. Come on… you must know the famous leader of USSR who
chopped it all up into pieces. [This is Mikhail Gorbachev] Anyway somehow or
other I forgot his name. I remember all the less significant ones, Russian guy.
They gave him a noble prize. Noble prize is also just a bunch of propaganda. So
anyway they did get together and Reagan famously called the USSR ‘The Evil
Empire’ Anyway the USSR all broke up. Things are not so easy to settle by
coming together and talking So anyway Drutakarma, he gave the conclusion that
well it’s not so easy that you can just talk it out because there are deeper
forces of work and they are not just political forces. There is the force of
time, there is the force of karma. The big leaders they think they are in
control but they are not in control. They are all controlled, there are bigger
forces then ourselves. Big leaders are convinced that what they are doing is
alright So why don’t we all get together and sort it out? Well like I said that
often when someone becomes a big lead as … you know they can’t hear anyone what
they have to say. They are convinced that what they are doing in right and I
also mentioned in my previous lecture about this that I tried speaking, maybe I
am not the most diplomatic person, I tried speaking to previous leader about
some of his strange things but it didn’t change his mind at all and though he
agreed under pressure to do certain things directed by the situation, he didn’t
and then he left this world. GBC is thinking about doing something Why don’t we
get together? Ya Well ya it will be good, lets see if something can be done but
it’s … I am in touch with one GBC member about this who says he is going to …
atleast he is thinking about doing something. So they are considering what to
do. So let’s see if anything happens. It’s very difficult to deal with all
these things because people you know they have their own power base and this
and that. So it should be the easy solution but it’s not so easy. People come
up with their own reasoning Just like you see, I don’t get involved in all
these email discussions about different issues. Just like Basu Ghosh Prabhu he
gets into these email discussions and he quotes Prabhupada line by line and on
different issues he says, “So how can you go against this thing?” But people
do. They come up with their own reasoning. Well if Prabhupada was here, now he
would have done this, he would have done that, this, that, the other and quote
some obscure sastras which no one even heard of, no acarya in recent times has
ever implemented. So what can we do? So you go on distributing Prabhupada’s
books and read Prabhupada’s books and preach there and people will be
benefitted.
Q3._______________ Not very clearly audible
Why do they follow their acaryas? Well that’s what they are
supposed to do.
WHY DO PEOPLE DEVIATE?
Q3 continued. ____________________
Answer: Why did they get side tracked? Well it’s you know
ask them. Why, why, why? Is anyone in maya? Maya is very strong It’s not that
just by walking in the door of ISKCON that you become free from maya. It’s not
that by taking sannyasa you become free from maya. It’s not that by taking up
the role of a guru one becomes free from maya. Maya never sleeps. She is always
active, she is very powerful. One should be afraid of maya. Once Srila
Prabhupada said that his disciples they are not afraid enough of maya. We
always have this tendency to think that we are more advanced then we are. ‘You
know I can preach to young girls, there is no problem’… that was the end of his
brahmachari life… that was the end of his sannyasa. ‘I can associate with
mayavadis, I am purifying.’ Well let’s see. Then you become a mayavadi. If you
associate with mayavadis, talk like a mayavadi, dress like a mayavadi then what
are you? A bird that swims in the water, ‘Quack! Quack!’ makes a sound like
that, walks on land in a wobbling kind of manner, has webbed feet, what
you call? It’s a duck. So if someone associates with mayavadis, talks like a
mayavadi, doesn’t dress like a Vaisnava, he look like a mayavadi then what you
call? [Snikers] Do not compromise with mayavada Hare Krishna! Ok go out,
distributing books means fighting with mayavada. There are so many quotes from
Prabhupada saying he wants to defeat mayavada. I am going to post one I know.
Everyday I post a quote from Prabhupada. So one of the many quotes from
Prabhupada, ‘Don’t make any compromise with mayavada.’ Mayavada is worse than
Buddhism Prabhupada said, ‘Mayavada is worse then atheism, it’s covered
atheism, worse then Buddhism.’ In Buddhism they deny any spiritual reality but
in mayavada, pracchannaà bauddham ucyate, it’s covered Buddhsim. They say that
it’s spiritual but it has … what they call spiritual as no name, form,
qualities, pastimes, abode, associates, so it’s worse. What is that Caitanya
Mahaprabhu said? veda nä mäniyä bauddha haya ta’ nästika vedäçraya
nästikya-väda bauddhake adhika (CC Madhya 6.168) Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that
Buddhists are called nastiks or atheists because they don’t accept the Vedas
but the mayavadis, they are worst then the Buddhists because they theoretically
accept the Vedas but they preach the same thing so they are worse. Hare
Krishna!
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