Introduction
Mid day meals
Benefits of Mid day meal project
Background of Mid day meal
Formation of ISKCON Communications
Two initiatives of ISKCON Communications
Idea of Salvation Army
Issue with that idea
Other issues with ISKCON World Review
Some points against Midday meal
1. No one is going hungry anyway
Quote of Srila Prabhupada against just feeding poor people
2. People join and just do that activity in many ISKCON
centers
3. Advertizing is totally mundane
Prabhupada’s welfare program was Varnasrama community
4. Volunteers start thinking in mundane terms
E.g. Sandipani muni school in Vrindavana
Stand of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati
Benefits from welfare programs are like happiness in mode of
passion
E.g., ISKCON in0s acquiring big castles but no spiritual
basis
E.g., distribution of biscuits and other things
Conditions set by GBC for Mid day meal
Whether Midday meal serves prasadam?
Srila Prabhupada’s response to Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund Committee
Quotes of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati against opening up
hospitals
Arguments against setting up hospitals and other such things
1. Devotees do not engage in such bodily welfare work
2. Becoming open to materialistic ideas often blurs the
distinction between devotees and non-devotees
3. Promoting hospitals and schools upholds materialistic way
of thinking
4. Such work is deceiving others and oneself
5. One can use funds for hospitals and schools in preaching
Bhaktivedanta Hospital
1. Money collection
2. Prabhupada’s deity at the entrance
3. Usage of funds collected
Barsana Eye Camps
1. Money collection
2. Serving tea
Bhaktivedanta Hospital
4. Sectarianism
Set up of hospitals and schools have entered our culture
Mundane welfare activities may not necessarily endear us to
people, it may trap us
Ex of FFL in Armenia
Ex of school in Bombay.
Some examples of proper food distribution programs.
1. In Australia
2. In ISKCON Melbourne
3. In LA
4. Food For All in London
Everyone needs prasad, not just the poor
Mid day meal programme is not ksatriya program
Brahmana order in ISKCON is not
in proper shape
1. Mid day meal approved by leaders of ISKCON
2. Temple President arranging funds for helping victims of 9/11
3. ISKCON golf championship on Gaur Poornima
Ksatriya initiative in the current scenario is not easy to
implement
ISKCON is becoming mundane and is becoming inured to that
1. Initiated devotee supporting Sai baba
People getting used to worse things
2. Journey Home issues
A. Content
B. Distribution
C. Erotic scenes
3. ISKCON Mayapur run by a mafia
4. Temples focusing on collecting funds rather then
preaching
5. Devotees councelled based on mundane psychology
6. Standards of deity worship diminished in India
7. Prabhupada’s books are not encouraged
8. Books other than Prabhupada’s books taking prominence
What could be the solution?
Case of accusation
Hrtvikism, Gaudiya Math, starting another movement are not
the solutions
Getting ISKCON in order is a better proposition
Difficulty in training people
Having orders like in church could be a solution
Kick from maya
Past attempts to solve
GBC meetings scenario
GBC glorifying books
My Present response to leader’s meeting
Purpose of all this discussion
Actual criterion of sincerity or earnestness
Center at Salem
Few Strange things in our movement
Experience at 3 days leader’s meeting
BTG
Referring woman as prabhu
Questions and Answers
So the topic is some of my
concerns about matters in ISKCON today. What I am going to speak about
specifically in response to the query that I got that it has a much broader application
then simply answering the question which has been asked by … actually two devotees
wrote me about this. The background is some time ago, few months ago, some devotees
approached me in Bombay and they had heard one lecture that I had given on ksatriya
spirit and they were inspired to take up ksatriya type services. I don’t know
if it is just from the lecture or if that lecture further inspired them. And
they asked what did I think about the idea of starting a ksatriya initiative
with in ISKCON. So I said, “Ya that’s a good idea” And I referred them to
Bhakti Raghava Swami who is heading up Varnasrama initiative within our
movement. Then few days ago I got a letter from another devotee, he is an aspiring
devotee of mine, who proposed to join that project. And he gave some of the
works that they are doing or that they proposed to do. And one of them was
promoting the mid day meals project with in ISKCON. And I didn’t reply very
extensively but I said that, “No I don’t think that’s a very good idea. You
have joined them and it seems that their ksatriya project is off course” I am
just paraphrasing. I can’t remember what I exactly said. Then that devotee wrote
back. … So he wrote back and said that well he thought that welfare activities
… he couldn’t understand that why ISKCON shouldn’t do that or might not be
expected to do that but as this is a ksatriya body which is operating with in
Varnasrama and that’s a pious activity, welfare activities and that’s
ksatriya’s … one of the things they do is welfare activities for human society.
He thought it would be acceptable with in that context. And I also got an email
from one of the devotees who had approached me several months before starting
this project and told me how it is being very well accepted by ISKCON leaders …
That mid day meal is not … it’s just one of the things … they have many things
that they wish to do and he wishes to meet me to discuss and understand why I
have seem to changed. So I am going to speak somewhat extensively. Whatever I
say I could say more about this. Another thing I am going to say now about all
of these things that I have not said before and I have discussed some of these
things with several of you and some of them I have said in recorded lectures which
are out there on the internet. So it’s not that I am saying anything new in
this regard. But I am bringing together in one lecture many different points. I
plan to write a book covering these topics in more detail which is a better way
to do things overall to cover each point thoroughly with quotes and systematic
reasoning but it takes a lot of time and I have many other writing projects. I
should finish the ones which are already started. There are many important
books which I have to write. That’s one of them – some analysis of various problems
or deviations with in ISKCON and perennial problems or problems that are liable
to perennially afflict our organization. I wanted to write a book but now you
could say that I am on the spot … that’s an English saying. Someone asked me
specifically about this and I should give them a satisfying reply which can’t
be done in just brushing it off … I mean you could just say, “Well that is all
nonsense” or something like that but these are serious devotees who … they want
to do something seriously in the service of Srila Prabhupada. I have a serious
disagreement with what they are doing. So this lecture, if you hear, it might
be discouraging. The aim is not to discourage but the subject matter is such
that it may do but on the other hand it should be spoken. Just like the doctor
tells the patient, “You have cancer.” It’s not likely to make him feel better,
I mean to make him feel… if he tells him, “Well actually there is no problem.
Just take some … that pain you have. Just take some aspirin for the head ache.”
He has got a brain tumor and tell him take an aspirin and … smile that makes
you feel good. We have to tell him, “You have got brain cancer.” So sometimes
it’s necessary to say things which are unpleasant otherwise they can’t be …
there is no question of rectifying them. What I am about to say will … already
is often considered to be in the language of others, extreme right wing,
conservative, orthodox, fanatical. But actually my attitudes in Krishna
Consciousness they were the standard in ISKCON when Srila Prabhupada was
present. It was like universal that … why is that? Because Prabhupada inculcated
in us the mood and the attitudes that I am going to talk about. So although it
may be called by various names it is actually what Prabhupada taught us. Of
course others may dispute that. I could say that I am not writing a book, I am
giving a lecture. So I am not going to go into very-very-very long analysis of
all the points and counter points. A few years ago, may be ten years ago, one
of my god brothers made the observation that now a days in ISKCON if you just
say and do and act in the same way that we did when Srila Prabhupada was
present then you are called dinosaur, fanatic or something like that which I
thought was an astute observation.
Mid day meals Benefits of Mid day
meal project
So midday meals, you probably all
know what this is. There is a program run by several of our ISKCON centers.
Actually I think it’s not … they have separate trusts to do it as far as I know.
It’s not done in the name of ISKCON directly. This was actually dreamed up by
Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa of the hrtvik center in Bangalore under the name Akshaya
patra, which means un-diminishable container. It’s from Mahabharata Draupadi. Of
course Draupadi didn’t had to go out and beg money because the patra was
akshaya by itself so there is a difference there. Madhu Pandit dreamed up this
idea and it was later taken up by various … what we might call standard ISKCON
centers in India under the title Mid day meals and the idea is to feed children
… I think mostly government schools may be non-government schools also, I don’t
know that much about it, they are mostly government schools, isn’t it? To
provide them with mid day meals and this is … the proponents of this program
say that Srila Prabhupada said that no one with in ten miles of our temple
should hungry. This program has garnered a tremendous appreciation from various
quarters. People seem to like our movement much more then they did before. And
they give us land and all kinds of things. It’s said that people who wouldn’t
give for regular ISKCON projects, they would give for this. So these are some of
the benefits which are mentioned. So many people are getting prasadam, even
non-hindus. So that’s the claim for the benefits of Mid day meals programme.
Background of Mid day meal
Now, I want to give some
background on this because like I said this … why am I against this? Well I am
claiming that my attitudes are the same attitudes as that when I joined ISKCON
because when I joined ISKCON, I had faith that what we were taught is what
Srila Prabhupada wanted and that we should do what Prabhupada said and I have
stayed with the same attitudes over all these years.
Formation of ISKCON
Communicationsl
Now shortly after Srila Prabhupada left this
world there was a body formed by some devotees in America with in ISKCON, which
was first of all called ISKCON public relations … I believe it was called but
soon they changed the name to ISKCON Communications. I guess because Public
relations give the idea that you are doing what’s now a days … you won’t understand
what this means but if you lived in America or Britain you would know. It’s a spin
job. In other words, it’s publicity to make other people think good about you
even though it’s not so good and all big people like Presidents of countries,
they all have their experts who help them to present to the world … Just like,
“Why” … it might be asked “are American troops in Afghanistan?” Well you need
someone to think up some story apart from the real one because the real one
doesn’t sound so good. So that’s the kind of thing that public relations does.
It’s meant for misleading … it gives the impression that it’s not quite honest.
So then the title was changed to ISKCON Communications which sounds a lot more honest,
communications. Like we just want to tell you what we are doing, like we are
just being open. So the title was changed to ISKCON Communications.
Two initiatives of ISKCON
Communications
Now two of the major initiatives
of the ISKCON public relations … it was formed very shortly after Prabhupada
left, may be78 or Two of the things they
did was to start the ISKCON World review and to start the Food for life
programme which many devotees think was … it’s often stated that Prabhupada
started it. Srila Prabhupada had a programme called ISKCON Food relief actually
which was seems specifically in Mayapur. I don’t know if it was ever anywhere
else and that was for giving prasadam to the many Bangladeshi refugees who were
flooded over to that area of India of that time. So Food for life was started
and with in the ISKCON World review it was weekly or fortnightly newspaper
which gave news of ISKCON activities all over the world but it also sort to
change the whole ethos of ISKCON.
Idea of salvation army
In one of the early editions … I remember
reading this and I tried to find the copy in which it’s printed but I couldn’t
find. But I remember reading about the ISKCON World Review. They gave the idea
of the salvation … they said because ISKCON at that time was quite unpopular
especially in America. There was lot of bad publicity which seemed largely due
to our aggressive book distribution which Srila Prabhupada … he was against
that. But it seemed to created a lot of oppositions especially what was seen as
the cheating tactics of the devotees in … what’s called the change up that …
the devotee would ask, “Could you give a big note and I will give …” When
someone agree to buy a book they would say, “Can you give a big note and I will
give you change because I have so much change?” and then so someone would give
a0 $ then devotee would slowly give $ … he would come down to 50 $ and he would
say, “Hey you know you are a very generous person. I think that’s ok” The person
may be only wanting to give $ and by some kind of trickery of being very
forceful like almost forcefully they take a lot more money from them. They
would give them extra books also but people didn’t like that at all. In many
ways I mean our movement was considered very strange with the people going out
and singing in this street. Well there is much more cosmopolitan now a days. In
those days if you didn’t wear your hair style short back ends … you know there
is one hair style for all men. If you didn’t wear your hair like that there was
… they would consider something wrong with you, so what to speak about singing
on the streets. Nowadays people like it, attitudes have changed but many people
like it. So movement was quite unpopular, there were all kind of accusations in
the press about us being a cult brainwashing people. So the ISKCON
communications sort to change the image of the ISKCON in the public eye and
they gave the example of the salvation army which is not very prominent
Christian sect which was founded in England in twelfth century and what they
did was the salvation army, they would dress in Quasi military uniforms and go into
public places and play music and sing songs, hymns, songs about God and they
got all kinds of bad publicity. People thought they were stupid, they are not
doing anything, they are just other-wordly, they are not doing anything
practical for human society, they should go out and get a job and do some work.
They were quite unpopular. So perceiving this the leaders of the salvation army
they decided, “Ok lets change our tactics, lets do some welfare work and then
people will like us.” So it’s true their whole image changed and people, their attitude
toward the salvation army became much more favorable and they started helping
the _____, having shelters for poor people and things like that.
Issue with that idea
The only problem is which wasn’t
mentioned in the ISKCON World review is that you don’t see the salvation army
on the streets anymore singing their songs. Actually I remember seeing them may
be once in my childhood and if anyone at all thinks of the salvation army,
which they hardly do at all because they are not a very significant sect, they
think of them in terms of the charitable work they do. So they became better
liked but they lost their whole mission. I mean they still had the mission of
converting people to Christianity but their focus changed drastically. So it
was a good example if you consider that we also, our dharma is to go out in public
places, sing the holy names, dress in unusual clothes, it’s many … similar in
many ways. But the point that they lost their … salvation army lost their whole
initial approach and attitude and they became less of a proselytizing movement
then a mundane welfare movement. That wasn’t mentioned in the ISKCON World
Review.
Other issues with ISKCON World
Review
And the ISKCON World Review was
also quite bold in introducing with in their pages … and it was sent free to
all the temples so everyone got to see it and there was news, so people like to
see news and Ratha yatra in this country, new temple opened in this place but
mixed up with that was … they had an agenda to change ISKCON and there were
things like that Princeton’s Reviews of cassettes made by ISKCON devotees and I
remember reading one of them that the guitar style is Hendrixian … you don’t
know, those of you who are from the west can understand, it’s in the style of Jimmy
Hendrixo, some famous demoniac … actually very demoniac person. He made one
album showing under cover art showed the picture of the universal form but
instead of having Vishnu’s head in the center, he had his head. Then he had
another one with all naked women on the front … you know that one… electric
lady … anyway. So and then he died … he had taken illicit drugs, he was lying
down __________ and he vomited and he choked on his vomit that’s how he died.
So praising this music by this devotee as being reminiscent of Jimmy Hendrix
that’s supposed to be a compliment? And there was like book reviews of semi
secular or secular books. So it was quite bold in that regard, in that it
brought in what we have not dreamed of before … I remember … I didn’t think
about this for years. I was newly in the movement and I asked one of the
devotees that among all these rock groups and this and that may be some are
like in the mode of goodness. He said, “No they are all demoniac.” That was my
misconception in the early days. So that was the proper understanding that rock
groups were all demoniac. But now there was this thing promoting rock music
with in ISKCON. It was very bold in those days and promoting that we should
interact with different groups like animal right group and it will give news of
not only of ISKCON activities but of different people who are promoting
re-incarnation and all this and that. So it sought to make our movement
accepted as part of normal society and that devotees can be thought of as
normal people with normal interests to a large extent and which was quite
different as … well I say it and it seems to me to be quite axiomatic that it’s
quite different to the whole ethos that Srila Prabhupada introduced everyone to
change society. We were opposed to this whole demoniac way of life. So it’s
more like becoming accepted by the society on the terms of modern society by accepting
many of the attitudes with in it and particularly by performing welfare
activities, bodily welfare activities and particularly prasadam distribution
which … of course prasadam distribution is very good, Prabhupada wanted that
very much but promoting prasadam distribution in a manner that it’s seen by the
public as welfare activity for hungry people, for needy people. So that’s the background
for pretty much all I am going to speak about how attitudes in ISKCON have changed,
they were deliberately changed. Some points against Mid day meal 1.No one is
going hungry anyway Now, when we say well what’s wrong with the mid day meals
program, Srila Prabhupada said, “No one should go hungry within ten miles of
our center, any ISKCON center.” Well I proposed that in the places that we are
distributing prasad no one is going hungry anyway. In Bombay, Bangalore, Delhi,
they are not going hungry. I mean there are people who are poor, relatively
poor but no one is starving in the cities. What happens is many people from poor
families, they don’t want to send their children to school because they think,
“Well they could go to work. I could immediately get some money from them if
they are working.” Like you know in a mechanic shop, or restaurant or in a
cheap dhaba, something like this. So but if I send them to school not only they
not bring any income but we have to feed them also. But if they are working in
a cafe or something they will get some food. So the government’s initiative to
give schooling to all children was being undermined by the fact that many parents
didn’t want to send their children. They wanted them to work from a young age which
means it’s also child labor which everyone is against or may. People in general
are against child labor. They think it’s simply exploitation and the children should
be at school so that they can have a better future. Interestingly no one
complains when children appear in advertisements, it’s also child labor or when
they appear in movies. They are required for parts and some of them become
famous child actors. That’s also child labor but no one complains about that
because they like to go to moves, I guess. And without the kids to play the
part then how could it be. So mid day meals is promoted. So people are not
going hungry anyway. And everyone … it’s not that people are starving and if we
provide meals to poor class people then they will spend the money on something
else like drink or cigarettes or payment on their TV sets or whatever.
Quote of Srila Prabhupada against just feeding poor people
So Srila Prabhupada didn’t … Srila Prabhupada said different things at different times. He didn’t want … there is one quote in which he says that simply feeding the poor is nonsense, there should also be some kirtana and some discussion of philosophy. If we only give food to the poor, Prabhupada said that is nonsense because he didn’t want … it’s quite clear from his letters that Srila Prabhupada didn’t want to promote ISKCON as being a social welfare movement in the way that it’s generally considered by mundane people. Although sometimes he did say that distribute prasad and people will appreciate that but it was never something that he promoted so much.
Quote of Srila Prabhupada against just feeding poor people
So Srila Prabhupada didn’t … Srila Prabhupada said different things at different times. He didn’t want … there is one quote in which he says that simply feeding the poor is nonsense, there should also be some kirtana and some discussion of philosophy. If we only give food to the poor, Prabhupada said that is nonsense because he didn’t want … it’s quite clear from his letters that Srila Prabhupada didn’t want to promote ISKCON as being a social welfare movement in the way that it’s generally considered by mundane people. Although sometimes he did say that distribute prasad and people will appreciate that but it was never something that he promoted so much.
People join and just do that
activity in many ISKCON centers
Whereas nowadays people they join
ISKCON and they think that in some centers it’s like the main activity. They
don’t have book distribution… hardly at all but they have the mid day meals and
the devotees are sent to go out and collect for mid day meals, not to distribute
books or do Harinama as their main service.
Advertising is totally mundane
So the advertising to the mid day
meals program if you see there brochures or whatever, it’s that you see that
“We are helping to build a nation” That appeals to people that we … but it goes
we are helping to build the nation by getting the children educated, we are
giving children a good future. But that’s completely against our philosophy,
the idea of building the nations is totally mundane, the idea that we will
build a nation by having more people educated so that they can become loyal
doctors, engineers or more likely become factory workers. The idea we are
helping children to improve their life that’s also mundane. The idea that they
can improve their life in a material way is itself mundane and that we want to
help develop the present modern society but that wasn't Prabhupada’s program at
all.
Prabhupada’s welfare program was
Varnasrama community
His social welfare program was to develop
Varnasrama community where people don’t have to live in this demoniac society.
That was Prabhupada’s welfare program. It wasn't that Prabhupada was callous to
social welfare but he wanted to do so through and Varnasrama and Varnasrama
education that people will be educated according to their role in Varnasrama.
Volunteers start thinking in
mundane terms
So the advertizing for mid day meals is
mundane, mundane meals. And you may say it’s just to induce people to give a
donation for it but the problem is that when we start talking like this and
people go out and speak to the public, they go and meet businessmen and then
tell him, “Look we are helping hungry children, we are building up the nation,
and we ___keep on repeating it and saying it again and again and again, you
start to think like that yourself. And instead of following Caitanya
Mahaprabhu’s order, jare dekhe tare kaho krsna upadesa, you are going and
talking to people about mundane things. So it changes the whole atmosphere of
ISKCON.
E.g. of
E.g. of
Sandipani muni school in
Vrindavana
Now there is also one very successful
programme is in the Vrindavana area called the Sandipani muni’s school. It
started one school, now they are starting three of four schools. It’s not
officially under ISKCON but it’s run by a devotee who is a member of ISKCON or something
like that … he is initiated by Sivarama Maharaja … he works … he doesn’t like Sivarama
Maharaja it seems but many ISKCON leaders promote that. It’s doing very good, giving
education to children in the Vrindavana area and collection is promoted by many
ISKCON leaders in this project. Recently I was at a center in Canada and I came
out of the main temple hall after the lecture and saw there was a stall
promoting this on the Sunday programme, taking donations from the people
attending and I saw the brochure which was meant for eliciting donations and I took
exception with that. I had a bit of an argument with person who was promoting
that programme because the brochure had the heading was “I am powerful” and
this was the message that Susmita Sena who is a Bollywood actress, which if we
are to speak frankly and in the language that Prabhupada used, which is not at
all appreciated with in ISKCON today but she is just a prostitute, to put it
straight forward. So she had come to the school and her message to the
children, to the girls especially was that, “You should think I am powerful, I can
change the world, you get an education and you can change the world.” It’s
totally mundane feminism and as I told this person, devotee or whatever, who is
collecting for that, “This is not Bhagavad Gita philosophy. This is
Hiranyakasipu philosophy I am powerful. I can change the world” So he said,
“Well you have to see, they are making them devotees.” But what devotees with
this kind of attitude? The devotee doesn’t think, “I am powerful, I can change
the world.” This is like I say Hiranyakasipu’s philosophy, kartaham, I am the
doer. So this is … I am just giving an actual example of how in the name of
distributing prasada and then he started of with distributing prasad to the
poor people then he got into other kinds of welfare work and this is willingly
promoted with in our society as something very good and it was mentioned that
Sonia Gandhi I believe came to opening one of their schools, she came. And
someone noted that you see what a great thing, we got Sonia Gandhi to come. She
never came to any ISKCON center. Actually she didn’t, she just came there, she
didn’t visit any other … Prabhupada said that about this doctor Radhakrishnan …
Was it Radhakrishnan or Nehru? I believe it was Nehru, grand father in law who
came to Vrindavana. Prabhupada said, “He was such a rascal, he came to
Vrindavana for the opening of the Ramakrishna mission hospital and he never
visit any of the temples, he just went back to Delhi. So Sonia Gandhi … “Can
you see what a great thing? She came to visit” but we say for none of our
temples… she never comes to any of our temples, she came to that. Well that shows
where she is at because she wouldn’t come to any of our temples because she is another
… may be I shouldn’t say this as this will go on the internet. You can fill in
the blank lines yourself. She is afterall a powerful person and its … I don’t
want to make trouble unnecessarily for members of our movement by making
statements that might not be appreciated by persons who have the capacity to
make troubles for others.
Stand of Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati
So the point is you see people are supporting
and they like it and they give huge money but it support yes but it’s for the
wrong reason. About Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura it was said that this is
stated in Sarasvati Jay shree… anyway I have also noted in this book Sri Bhaktisiddhanta
Vaibhava that certain persons said about him that if you did just changed his message
a little bit and just had made some compromise then all the Vaisnavas of Bengal
would have followed him. They were saying there was no need for him to fight
with everyone. If he just adjusted himself a little bit to them, everyone would
appreciate him and even many people who are opposing him they would accept him
as their leader. But he didn’t, he remained Bhakti siddhanta not karma
siddhanta. And we bow our head at his lotus feet, thank Krishna for sending him
for being Bhakti siddhanta not karma siddhanta. There are so many who are karma
siddhanta and who promotes this will be popular and liked but they won’t be
Bhakti siddhanta.
Benefits from welfare programs
are like happiness in mode of passion
So yes we are getting support,
well that helps us, we get permission for … if people are favorable to us then
we get permission for building temples, having festivals but as I see it, it’s something
like happiness in the mode of passion. In the beginning it’s look very good but
after sometime you will find that the result is just the opposite of what you
thought it would be. Ex, ISKCON in80s acquiring big castles but no spiritual
basis That we saw in the80s, when in many parts of the world our devotees
stopped doing book distribution and they started selling paintings and all
kinds of different things which were much easier to sell then books because if
you give people a book which is about giving up sense gratification, who wants
to buy a book about that. But if you give them sense gratification then they
will buy it much more easily. So with the same effort you get a lot more money.
And with that money you can give away books and you can build big temples which
happened. You know you never stopped distributing books through all of that,
you were there at that time…….. We buy big buildings but in the end it because
devotees were not getting any spiritual taste by going out and telling people
here is the most popular paintings, were paintings of dogs. So by saying Oh
this is a nice painting of a dog… by glorifying dog in stead of glorifying God
naturally that whatever they were told that you see we are doing this for
Krishna … but they lost their taste and they thought that why do I am doing it
for Krishna, I am doing it for what? I can do it for myself. So they … big
castles and all those big castles now a days are empty because there was no
spiritual basis. So in the same way if we are all the time talking about
building the nation, feeding the poor, I am powerful, I can change the world,
we are not going to get the spiritual taste and it won’t be Krishna
Consciousness. Krishna Consciousness won’t spread and we will talk and think and
act as welfare workers and we will become bodily welfare workers. Ex,
distribution of biscuits and other things Just like for instance sometime ago I
came to know … we weren’t told about it but I came to know through the back
door method, well we … I have requested commission from the regional secretary
or whatever they call, local GBC for one area that there is no preaching going
on in this town, we have no ISKCON center there, we would like to send some devotees
there to do some preaching. He said, “Oh no actually that’s already … there is something
going on there already.” So what we came to find out is that what was going on
... there has been a flood in that area recently and our devotees had been
there during the floods and they were distributing packets of biscuits and what
else? Blankets and things like that. So why they should distribute biscuits
which is karmi food and just sinful food? You can distribute, distribute some
prasadam and then after it is subsided with so many houses destroyed. Someone
in America wanted to give a huge donation for building houses for all the people
who were … atleast some of the people who had lost their houses and he wanted
to give it to ISKCON because he thought he can trust ISKCON to do a good job.
So from doing food relief and then doing flood relief and now they are building
houses and just getting more and more entangled because people think that’s
what ISKCON does, very good. They do a very good job and so the energy of our
devotees is diverted more and more into these activities. It makes us popular
but we loose our whole mission, we loose our soul. So we couldn’t go there to
preach because they were building houses for the homeless people.
Conditions set by GBC for Mid day
meal
This statement of Srila
Prabhupada that giving only food to … is nonsense. There should be kirtana and
katha and tell them some philosophy also. But … so this mid day meal things, this
came up to discussion that isn’t this mundane welfare work? I said … that way
imitating the Ramakrishna mission or something like that. In the end it was
decided by the ICC or something like that, RGB, Regional Governing Body of the
administrative umbrella body of ISKCON in India that this mid day meal
programme could go on but it should… with every distribution of prasad there
should be kirtana and some speaking. But here is the catch that you … because
of this secularism in India you can go and distribute but you can’t do kirtana and
katha. So the very conditions which they said to make it allowable isn’t
allowed and when you advertise you can’t advertise that it’s prasadam. You have
to say that it’s food, we are feeding the poor. Whether Mid day meal serves
prasadam? Now about prasadam that question comes up also. I am not sure if it
in all places those who are cooking are actually devotees because you know
where are so many … in many places we are having difficulty even having
devotees to cook with in the temple, what to speak of huge capacity outside. I
mean there is the principle, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy
aham, Krishna reciprocates, right! So I just wondered how much love and
devotion goes into this mechanized process of cooking because the mid day meals
are cooking for thousands of people and it’s all done by a mechanized process
where you put in … you know the mound is measured by machine, how much rice,
how much dal, how much water, press a button and then take it all out or it all
goes … it’s all computerized and then it’s packaged. The whole process is very
machine like and it’s just dropped off at the school by … in many cases … I
think in almost all cases by people who are not devotees. They are paid to do a
job. So I just wondered … you know prasadam and the whole aim is anyway to …
the idea of feeding so that we can develop the nation. I mean does Krishna
accept that? I wonder … does Krishna oblige to accept it because we call it
prasad? We have to call it prasadam. And that’s statement is going to get a lot
of flag. Srila Prabhupada’s response to Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund Committe So
it used to be in ISKCON that people would say that why don’t you do social
work? Why don’t you build hospitals? Why don’t you feed the poor? Well now a
days folks we can say we do or they already know that we do. Here I am going to
read from the Science of Self Realization just to give … it’s quite shocking
actually you might think that Srila Prabhupada’s response about… this is about
specific instance where Srila Prabhupada was asked to perform social welfare
work in what appeared to be a very worthy cause. This is …. There was a letter came
from the secretary of the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund Committee who wrote to
Srila Prabhupada. It was during … there had been a drought throughout Andhra
Pradesh so the secretary of the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund committee wrote to
Srila Prabhupada, Revered Svamiji, The residents of the twin cities (that means
Hyderabad and Secunderabad) are happy to have this opportunity to meet you and
your esteemed followers. You may be aware that due to inadequate rainfall
during the last two years and it’s complete failure this year more then half of
our state (that’s Andhra Pradesh) is in the grip of a serious drought. With a
view to supplement governmental efforts to combat this evil, a central
voluntary organization of citizens drawn from various walks of life has been
set up. The members of this organization surveyed the areas affected by
drought. The situation is pathetic. There are villages where drinking water is
not available for miles. Due to scarcity of fodder the cattle owners are parting
with their cattles for a nominal price. Many of the stray cattles are dying
away due to unavailability of fodder and cattle. The food problem is also very
serious. Due to high prices of food grains on the open market purchase of
grains at market prices is beyond the reach of poor villagers with the result
that atleast five to six million people are hardly having even one meal a day.
There are many who are on the verge of starvation. The entire situation is most
pathetic and heart rendering. We therefore appeal to your revered self to
consider how your society could best come to the rescue of these millions of
souls who are in unimaginable distress. The committee would like to suggest
that members of your society appeal to the bhaktas attending your discourses to
contribute their might to the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund. The committee id
prepared to send some of its representatives along with members of your society
wherever you wish to distribute prasad to the hungry millions in the state. As manava
seva is madhava seva, service to man is service to God, the committee is
confident that even a little effort by your gracious society, will go a long
way in mitigating the sufferings of hundreds and thousands of people. Yours
ever in the service of the Lord, T.L.Katidia, Secretary Andhra Pradhesh Relief
fund Committee, Hyderabad, India. So that’s a very respectfully written, about
a … as he has stated a pathetic and heart rendering situation. A specific thing
he asked for was that … Srila Prabhupada at that time was giving public
lectures in Hyderabad and that after the lecture it … that a request be made to
the people in attendance to give a donation to the Andhra Pradesh Relief fund
Committee. That’s all he asked for. He also suggested that members that if
ISKCON wanted to send some members the committee would assist them if they
wanted to go out into the afflicted areas and distribute prasadam. So that’s
the request. Srila Prabhupada’s reply, My dear Mr. Katidia, Please accept my
greetings. With reference to your letter and your personal interview, I beg to inform
you that without pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, no one can become
happy. Unfortunately people do not know who God is and how to make Him happy.
Our Kåñëa consciousness movement is therefore meant to present the Supreme
Personality of Godhead directly to the people. As stated in the
Çrémad-Bhägavatam, Seventh Canto, Sixth Chapter: tuñöe ca tatra kim alabhyam
ananta ädye/ kià tair guëa-vyatikaräd iha ye sva-siddhäù. The idea stated in
this verse is that by pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we please
everyone, and there is no question of scarcity. Because people do not know this
secret of success, they are making their own independent plans to be happy.
However, it is not possible to achieve happiness in this way. On your
letterhead I find many important men in this country who are interested in
relieving the sufferings of the people, but they should know for certain that
without pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead all their attempts will be
futile. A diseased man cannot live simply on the strength of the help of an
expert physician and medicine. If this were so, then no rich man would ever
die. One must be favored by Kåñëa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore
if you want to perform relief work simply by collecting funds, I think that it
will not be successful. You have to please the supreme authority, and that is
the way to success. For example, due to the performance of saìkértana here, the
rain has begun to fall after a drought of two years. The last time we performed
a Hare Kåñëa Festival in Delhi, there was imminent danger of Pakistan's declaring
war, and when a newspaper man approached me for my opinion, I said there must
be fighting because the other party was aggressive. However, because of our
saìkértana movement, India emerged victorious. Similarly, when we held a festival
in Calcutta, the Naxalite [Communist] movement stopped. These are facts.
Through the saìkértana movement we can not only get all facilities for living,
but also at the end can go back home, back to Godhead. Those who are of a
demoniac nature cannot understand this, but it is a fact. I therefore request
you, as leading members of society, to join this movement. There is no loss on
anyone's part for chanting the Hare Kåñëa mantra, but the gain is great.
According to Bhagavad-gétä (3.21), what is accepted by leading men is also
accepted by common men: yad yad äcarati çreñöhas tat tad evetaro janaù sa yat
pramäëaà kurute lokas tad anuvartate "Whatever action a great man
performs, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by
exemplary acts, all the world pursues." The saìkértana movement of Kåñëa
consciousness is very important. Therefore, through you I wish to appeal to all
the leading men of India to accept this movement very seriously and give us all
facility to spread this movement throughout the world. Then there will be a
very happy condition, not only in India but all over the world. Hoping this
will meet you in good health, Your ever well-wisher, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami So
Srila Prabhupada refused the request to take a collection for the Andhra Pradesh
Relief fund even though that committee was composed of very big important
people who certainly would have become much more favorable. Prabhupada said
their attempt was … well he used the word demoniac, he didn’t directly say they
are demoniac, but the implication is clear that if you don’t accept what I am
telling you that you should … instead of asking us to help you, you should all
come and join us and if you don’t accept this that’s because you have a demoniac
nature. That was Srila Prabhupada’s response. So undoubtedly he could have got
all kinds of help from these people that they would have asked being the
leading men of the state and of India, they would have yes please come, open your
center. Prabhupada replied in a manner that ask them to join him but knowing
that they are not likely to join him but likely to not support him or not think
of him favorably. But Prabhupada … that was his style. He didn’t think that we
should become … or even help people in that way even though they were suffering.
You could say it was a much more valid case you could say then the mid day
meals programme. But Prabhupada refused to do so. So I have finished here for
now and we can resume a little later.
Quotes of Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati against opening up hospitals Arguments against setting up hospitals
and other such things
Devotees do not engage in such bodily welfare
work I would like to now read some quotes from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati
Thakur that I have included in the book Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Vaibhava. “The
thousands of karmis who have opened innumerable hospitals. Old age homes,
centers for the poor and schools and the thousands of jnanis who have undergone
meditation and severe austerities are insignificant compared to single kanistha
adhikari Vaisnava, once ringing the bell before the Lord’s deity. This is not
sectarianism but plain truth. Athiests are wholly incapable of realizing this.
Thus they become either direct or indirect blasphamers of devotional service or
adherence to the doctrine of harmonistic all inclusiveness.” So the idea that
we are helping people by opening hospitals, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura
said that innumerable hospitals, opening up innumerable hospitals by karmis is
not even comparable to a kanistha adhikari vaisnava once ringing the bell
before the diety. So in other words, stating that the categorical difference between
devotional service and bodily welfare work … now it may be objected that well
if devotees do bodily welfare work then what’s the harm but the implication
here is that devotees don’t do that. It isn’t their prime concern or even their
secondary concern. Becoming open to materialistic ideas often
blurs the distinction between devotees and nondevotees “Being averse to lord
Visnu countless jivas have come to mahamaya’s dungeon to envy Lord Vishnu in
countless ways. To deliver even one of them from mahamaya’s fortress and make him
a devotee of Krishna is unlimitedly better welfare work then the construction
of countless hospitals and schools.” So bringing people to Krishna
Consciousness is obviously a lot more difficult then performing bodily welfare
work but it’s far better also. People in general won’t appreciate that. So it’s
easier to get appreciation for things that worldly people approve of. But then
you become part of them. You partake of their way of thinking. You may say,
“Well we understand we are devotees, we are doing it, but we are not the same
as nondevotees” but I have given some examples of how it’s very easy to become
part of the ethos that you are supposed to be changing. It’s like if you … the
idea that well you become a little open to materialistic ideas so that people
will atleast interrelate with you and then gradually they can appreciate
Krishna Consciousness but what I see it often happens the other way that you
become like friendly or you relate with people on their level and our devotees
tend to become more like non-devotees and then non-devotees becoming like devotees,
the distinction becomes blurred. 1 Promoting
hospitals and schools upholds materialistic way of thinking Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura states, “Welfare work is good but has two
defects – it directly or indirectly encourages Godlessness and supports
violence to animals and other living entities.” directly or indirectly
encourages Godlessness, here the idea is you see we are promoting that we are
helping people by opening up hospitals, opening schools, it supports the
materialistic way of thinking, it directly or indirectly it upholds the
materialistic way of thinking that this world is the arena for our enjoyment
independent of Krishna and the only real welfare for everyone is to surrender
to Krishna. So if we tell people, you see we are helping people, you should
donate because we are building hospitals and schools then we are by not
informing them that the actual welfare work for all living beings is to
surrender to Krishna and encouraging them to act in a manner, which they
already agree with but which is maya, we are actually encouraging them to be in
maya and by speaking like this among our own devotees instead of helping them
to get free from maya, we are keeping them in it. So these are some of the
problems. Such work is deceiving others and oneself Again
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, “Sri Caitanya Deva preached through out the
world for the welfare of all jivas yet the welfare work he proposed was not of
the small minded, paltry, stop gap, changeable or imaginary pie in the sky type
like that envisaged by so called social reformers and mundane philanthropists.
The welfare work He proposed is of the highest caliber and neither temporary,
nor insignificant. The ways to uplift others already invented being and about
to invented by ordinary human beings according to their narrow considerations
will in no way profit anyone because they are all make shift. Sri Mahaprabhu revealed
the actual means for elevating others, vedyaà västavam atra vastu çivadaà
täpatrayonmülanam, (if you don’t know what that means, you are not studying the
books properly because it’s a well known quote from Srimad Bhagavatam)
distresses are the effect of a particular cause. Until the cause is terminated,
the effect will remain. Unless the root of the banyana tree is destroyed it
will again sprout even if one cuts down its trunk and branches thousands of
times. The thousands of man made proposals for social welfare are like an attempt
to empty the ocean with one’s bare hands. Even if thousands of people engage continuously
in such an endeavor for thousands of yugas they will never be successful. By doing
so they might cause a vast body of water to accumulate elsewhere. Similarly we
cannot empty the ocean of material suffering by our own strength. At most we
will simply succeed in transferring the problems elsewhere. Of course by doing
that you can certainly deceive others and even ourselves.” So this is the
severe accusation. Who will dare to make such an accusation that the bodily
welfare work being carried out within ISKCON is deceiving others and ourselves
but actually it’s deliberately meant to deceive others that because the idea is
that the unstated purpose is actually we understand that bhakti is the highest
but people don’t understand so we will engage them in this way. So it’s meant
to deceive them. But actually we deceive ourselves because we start to talk,
act and think like that, like a mundane person. Instead of approaching people
and telling them that Krishna Consciousness is the solution to all problems, we
meet them and say, “Please help, we are doing great work by feeding the poor,
opening hospitals and so on.” One can use funds for hospitals and schools in
preaching So another quote from Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura… there are so
many. “To have faith in the Holy name is so very rare that we may leave it out
of consideration. If we had faith even in namabhasa, the most dimly perceived
name, we would never have said that suturing the victims of floods is better
then kirtana and pracara, singing and preaching about God or that freeing the
country from famines or the opening of hospitals is better then preaching
devotion to God. Hundreds of famines can be alleviated not only by namabhasa
but even by namaparadha, offensive taking of the name.” So ofcourse no one is
ISKCON is saying that opening hospitals is better then preaching devotion to
God. But by their actions they are saying because it’s a huge effort to set up
a hospital. And setting up a hospital with the same endeavor and funds one
could promote the preaching of the Holy name. Now the idea of running hospitals
by devotees and then people are in distress and then you preach to them, you
look after them and the employees are devotees. Well may be it’s not a bad
idea, we find in the … there is a book by Srila Prabhupada called the message
of Godhead in which he gives recommendations that factory owners can call their
workers together to chant Hare Krishna and give them all prasadam but as I
understand that’s for people who already have factories. It’s not that
Prabhupada is recommending that people who are devotees invest their funds to
set up factories so that people can work in a factory and chant Hare Krishna. Bhaktivedanta
Hospital Money collection I means just like the
Bhaktivedanta Hospital was a set up spending huge amounts of money which could
have been used for … well if you want to do social welfare work why not do it the
way that Prabhupada said that set up varnasrama communities which is an all
around solution. As far as … ok things I am seeing this I will say it here. I
have some doubts about the Bhaktivedanta hospital as much as the money is
collected … they keep on collecting money and all they have devotees full time
engaged in collection for it. I wonder because you know so many hospitals are
set up in India for profit and then why is this one collecting funds all over
the world and in America and there are so many disciples of a certain guru with
in ISKCON who they all donate regularly to Bhaktivedanta hospitals and eye
camps and this and that and I guess they feel they are obligated to do so that
why … that’s part of their devotional service. But why not donate for
distributing books, setting up varnasrama, directly activities that Prabhupada
recommended and directly devotional? In fact so you are bringing people to
Prabhupada’s movement and directing them to engage in some bodily welfare work
and how they are collecting so much money. The mid day meals also … devotee
recently wrote to me who was connected with congregation of a certain temple
that runs this mid day meals programme and he had been asked to canvass with in
his company for the sponsorship of the mid day meals. So it seems that they are
going on more and more widely collecting more and more money and it’s which you
know they could be collecting money like I say directly for Krishna Consciousness.
But they are engaging people who have come to Krishna Consciousness in
activities which are not Krishna Conscious. I mean they have to approach their
company members, “Look we are feeding the poor, we are building up the nations,
we are helping, support children.” And get money for them. Instead of preaching
to their company members, instead of raising funds for Krishna Consciousness,
they are engaged in raising funds for … they are engaged in collecting funds
for bodily welfare works. That’s what they do … I mean that’s what they say.
They may have the understanding that actually it’s all spiritual but what they
are engaged in, what they actually say and do is that we are collecting funds
to help people so that they can get a better future and we are helping to
develop the nation like this. Prabhupada’s deity at the entrance Some … I
don’t know … so many things to say… well just one add the Bhaktivedanta hospital
in Bombay I have some objection. Srila Prabhupada he objected that at the yoga pitha
in Mayapur the temple of Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s birthplace, after
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura’s departure one of his disciples made a
temple honoring Bhaktivinod Thakur at the entrance of the yoga pitha and
Prabhupada said that … he said that’s respectful they made … like they made him
like the doorkeeper. So they might bear that in mind that Prabhupada’s murti is
right there in the … right in the entrance. So Prabhupada didn’t much approve
of that. Usage of funds collected Oh that thing about
collecting funds … we always use to hear this that the Madhu pandit has set up
the Aksaya patra program for fund collection. We don’t hear about that so much
but the idea … but that he had become … of course I guess it would be difficult
to prove this but he made this program … he is clearly … he is moving around
huge amounts of money and it’s said that money has largely been generated from
the Aksaya patra program that they say that it costs so much money to feed
people but actually one plate costs this much but actually it costs less and so
they collect a lot more money then they need to for the actual food distribution
and in this way they are generating money. So definitely lot of money floating around.
And whether it’s all going to Krishna Conscious purposes or for the purpose
that it’s said to be collected for … I don’t know it’s open to question. Barsana
Eye Camps Money collection Eye camps, another thing
that’s collected for all over the world that eye camps are held by devotees or
members of ISKCON like once a year or something in Vrindavana and they collect
all year, all over the world on the base of that … I don’t mind but … I don’t
know how it can cost so much money that they have to go on collecting and
collecting and collecting in the name of eye camps. Once I was in Behrain and I
was told that a certain doctor who was a disciple of a certain guru in our
movement whose followers organize these eye camps, I was told that he had recently
moved to Behrain. So then I met him and the first thing he said to me, “Oh we
have opened a new eye campaign Barsana” That’s the first thing he said to me
like that is what all his devotional aspirations are about. Not like we are
distributing books or … but we opened a new eye camp. So I said to him, “Yes so
all those people now they will all be watching TVs very nicely.” And he laughed
and he had to agree. Serving tea One of my disciples who is a
doctor, he went to one of those eye … he participated in one of those eye camps
once, he said he will never do it again because it was … serving free tea he didn’t
agree with that, along with the eye camp they had free tea for everyone. So
that’s said to be serving Brajvasis but I don’t … because it’s done in the area
of Vraja but I don’t ... you know is that the way to serve Brjvasis is to help
them in … unless you give them spiritual upliftment … I mean we shouldn’t be in
the sentimental mood that everyone who is born in Braja or lives in Braja is a
perfect, pure devotee. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura certainly didn’t agree
with that. By their activities … watching TV … one of my god brothers who has
lived in Vrindavana for many years, he is quite convinced knowing … he sent me
once the list of some of the really horrible things that he knew certain
Brajvasis were doing. So we could also work to uplift their character by the
regular process of devotional service. Bhaktivedanta Hospital Sectarianism
You say that Bhaktivedanta hospital, it’s serving devotees. Well a leading
devotee at ISKCON in Juhu in Bombay told me that there is free treatment at the
Bhaktivedanta hospital for devotees but only from Chowpatty, Pune, not for Juhu
devotees. Why the sectarianism? I don’t know if it is changed now. He told me
that about two years ago. He said we send our devotees to other hospitals where
they … non-devotee hospitals where they treat us free. I went to the
Bhaktivedanta hospital for check up once, they charged me two thousand rupees and
something … that was years ago. And after that I went, did checkups in other
hospitals and again they treat me free so … may be people donate, under the
impression that devotees are treated free… well some of them. Set up of
hospitals and schools have entered our culture Like this mid day meals and
Bhaktivedanta hospitals, eye camps, it’s a bit nebulous because not being run
in the name of ISKCON. So if anyone brings up any criticism they say, “Well
it’s not ISKCON” But everyone relates with it as being ISKCON and like I say people
due to their relationship with ISKCON they are expected to donate for it or to
offer, to solicit donations for it and we may say well that just something on
the side that some of our congregation are doing but it’s entered the ISKCON
culture and recently I saw brochures for two ISKCON projects for building
temples in India in which in both of then they included along with the temple,
hospitals, school, old age home as if it’s you know something that … you know
that’s what ISKCON does… the temple there was like one paragraph about the temple
and then the whole rest of the brochure was about the hospital, school … school
doesn’t mean gurukul it means teaching mundane subjects. So it’s entered our
culture. People think that well you know that’s … our own devotees think well
that’s what ISKCON have a temple, you have to have a hospital and in one center
one devotee told me … he was under tremendous pressure to start mid day meals
and he didn’t want to do it so I am not the only one against it, he didn’t want
to do it but he was under tremendous pressure … that’s what ISKCON does, why
don’t you do it? So … like I say in that brochure there was a small bit about
the temple and all the rest was about old age home, hospital and so you see
that the directly spiritual part about the temple is gradually becoming less
and less and less and then the hospital becomes the main thing. Like the
salvation army, their directly religious activity is it become less and less
and less because it’s much easier to go along with what people like rather than
some higher ideals. So like this some schools and colleges … Srila Prabhupada
is very clear against mundane education which is why he set up gurukuls but
then nowadays school in ISKCON, they proudly announce that we are … our school
is affiliated with the Cambridge board and we have in Mayapur … we are proud to
announce that our school is affiliated with the Cambridge board… why pride?
That’s in Mayapur. People come to Mayapur and instead of getting education in
Srimad Bhagavatam they get education in how to be another mudha member of
modern society … Oh and they have little kirtana in the beginning and in the
end… may be… But the curriculum is mundane. Few years ago when I was visiting
ISKCON Vrindavana, after the mangala arati the vice president made some
announcements. One of the announcements he made was that our school basketball
team has reached the semi-final of the UP state championships. So we are all
supposed to be … I don’t know we are supposed to be enlivened by that that this
is another what Srila Prabhupada gave his blood to go to the west and preach so
that we develop schools in Vrindavana for such mundane things. It’s all the
worst … it’s bad enough anyways but in Vrindavana where we should be
encouraging the spiritual culture it’s completely mundane. Mundane welfare
activities may not necessarily endear us to people, it may trap us Now the idea
is that well you see people they like us and… but not necessarily because after
all pretty much every hindu organization in India had run some schools and so
people don’t particularly like us for that. Even the prasadam distribution what
it’s called … that may not necessarily endear us to people. Ex of FFL in
Armenia In Armenia, which is a country in former Soviet Union, devotees were
distributing to the poor and needy for several years, they were distributing
food for several years and then one day there was a tremendous attack on our
movement by some hoodlums and they came to our temple and severely beat up the
devotees. I was in Russia at that time, it came on the news in Russia on the
TV. Devotees covered in the blood and they smashed up the temple completely and
you would have thought that the people in general would have been supportive,
come out in support of us because we have done so much public welfare activity but
no one came out in our support. Armenians has a very strong sense of national
identity and that people didn’t like that we were trying to introduce some new
religion. So that practically our movement it never recovered from that and we
don’t have any … our movement which was centered around food distribution to
people from the poorer section of society that was like the main thing, food
for life. But our movement has never recovered from that attack. So I am just
saying that it’s not necessarily true that we do gain public support and it can
become a liability because that people expect you to do it and then if you don’t
do it then if you don’t keep up this you become trapped in doing that. Ex of
school in Bombay I know in Bombay they made that school and now they want to …
they wanted to stop it at some point but then the parents of the children they
wouldn’t allow it. There is so much protest and now they have to go to the all
the trouble of collecting huge amounts of money and setting up a school
elsewhere outside the temple compound because they realize that it’s of no
benefit whatsoever to the temple and just takes up unnecessary space and the
children they don’t become devotees after going through the whole school. They
just … because the education is not to make them become devotees per say. So
it’s like a case of destroying … you loose your caste and you are still hungry.
The brahmana he begged food from a low caste person because he was so hungry
and he lost his caste by doing so but the low caste person who fed him could
only give him a handful to eat. So he lost his caste and he remained hungry. So
we think we are getting some advantage but we become doubly disadvantaged. Some
examples of proper food distribution programmes Now I am not against feeding
the poor per say. I am not like totally against it, we shouldn’t do it but
there are ways to do it which doesn’t compromise our integrity. Just like …
that’s my claim that the mid day meals programme it compromises our integrity
by promoting that making … whole suborganization with in the organization,
collecting funds in the name of building up the nation, helping children to get
a good future which is actually against our philosophy or the philosophy that
Srila Prabhupada taught us. So examples of poor feeding programmes that I … well
I am speaking now, who am I but anyway whoever wants to listen, they can listen
that I think of very good. In Australia I am pretty sure it’s still going
on in Australia I believe it was in Melbourne or Sidney, I can’t remember but
every night they would from the restaurant whatever was left over … they have a
restaurant at the temple… they would distribute at o’ clock or o’ clock at
night out the back of the temple and you know destitute people would come and
they get them prasadam. In ISKCON Melbourne So that’s good in
Melbourne ISKCON I am told that they have a programme that they have a program
that whoever comes to the temple all day long they give them a full plate of prasadam,
they don’t ask him to give a donation. So that’s very good. In LA In
Los Angeles three or four times a week they take the … whatever is left over
from the restaurant, they go down to one area of the town, they sat up a table.
People know they are coming at a certain time, every time, so people who …
destitute they come and while they distribute prasad, they do kirtana, it’s
very open, they are devotees and like this. So these are very good. Food
For All in London There is also a program in London called not food for life
called Hare Krishna food for all. So it’s just a little bit different name but
it gives a different connotation Food For All instead of Food For Life. In
other words, it’s not just aimed at the poor but it is meant for everyone. So they
have storefront and it’s like a free restaurant and they are very openly
devotees and people come and they have kirtana and like this. Everyone needs
prasad, not just the poor So I am not fanatically against distributing prasadam
to the poor but of course Srila Prabhupada said that it should be distributed
to everyone, everyone is spiritually poor so if we are going to distribute
prasad why marry that concept to that of poor feeding and make that a major
initiative of our movement? Distribute prasadam widely to everyone. Everyone needs
prasadam, it’s not just the poor. Mid day meal programme is not ksatriya
program Now getting back to that this specific question by which I came to
narrate all these things that a ksatriya one of their duties is activities for
public welfare. That’s true but the mid day meals program is not ksatriya
program. One of the main facets of being a ksatriya is that you never beg
anything from anyone for any reason. Ksatriya never begs, he levies taxes which
he uses for the welfare of the people. So ksatriya welfare work … or the kings,
the leaders of the society, actual ksatriyas they are supposed to do that. They
are not supposed to beg money. So if you are begging money from the public that
disqualifies you from being a ksatriya, so you can’t say that they are ksatriya
activities. Now why then am I not in favor of this ksatriya project? Well in
concept in the beginning I said yes its good idea but because it’s following this
mid day meal track I say that although the idea is theoretically good the
implementation is wrong. They haven’t understood what the mission is. Brahmana
order in ISKCON is not in proper shape The ksatriyas are supposed to assist the
brahmanas. So the idea is like the ksatriyas are assisting the work of the main
pure brahminical work of ISKCON by fighting law cases to help and this and
that. But then this assumes that ISKCON is on track and the ksatriyas are helping
but my proposition which is no doubt controversial is that ISKCON isn’t on
track so if you help that, you are not really helping anything. So Srila
Prabhupada always said about Varnasrama that the first thing is to get the
brahmana order and then the others can follow because if the head is not in
order even if you have a healthy body if the head is not in order then the
whole functioning becomes useless or disarranged. So still the need is there to
get the head in order because I have given some examples and I will give some
more that … the best is yet to come in this lecture of how things are not
philosophically in order in our movement. So to assist the movement as it presently
stands it shows this means that the ksatriya initiative is not going to work.
We are still at the stage of needing to get the brahmana order in proper shape. Mid
day meal approved by leaders of ISKCON Like this mid day meal thing I have
noted some serious reservations I have about it. But our leaders have approved
this program. Presentation was made at the GBC about this this year and it was
all approved. And at regional meetings when it was in here India when it’s
stated that distributing biscuits to the flood stricken people and leaders … it
was a leader’s meeting and they are all everyone’s clapping and so my
contention is that the brahmanas need to be put in order. Temple
President arranging funds for helping victims of/11 One … or let me say
something else first … some other examples … there are many of how I perceived
that our leaders are not properly situated in understanding and implementing
Srila Prabhupada’s teachings is that in the famous incident/11 when the world
trade center came tumbling down for whatever reason, it’s said to be because of
some airplanes flying into it, into two of the towers and one of the towers
just came down without any apparent reason. There was a huge outpour of public
sympathy for the fireman, many of them who were killed in trying to combat the
fires with in that building. So one of our GBC members who is also a temple
president arranged from his temple community a collection to help the fireman
which if you don’t see the ambiguity in that with what Prabhupada’s teaching
are all about then you might be a friend or a victim of the very syndrome that
I am talking about. ISKCON golf championship on Gaur Poornima Another
example came on the internet quite a few years ago may be nine or ten years
ago. A report of the first ISKCON golf championship which was held in
California on Gaur Poornima day and it gave a report … this is on the Chakra
website, which you may remember was prominent in ISKCON at one point. So the
report came up and then report how several ex-temple presidents there and we
are very grateful that our … one GBC member also come … he couldn’t spend much
time because he was quite busy but he played a few holes with us. So these are
just some examples of how that goes what the leaders seem to be very much misleading…
themselves not properly situated. Ksatriya initiative in the current scenario
is not easy to implement One job that ksatriyas are supposed to see is that
everyone follows their duties properly so if the ksatriya initiative can get
the … instead of going along with the things that the leader shouldn’t be doing
____ you ____ get them to do what they should be doing. That would be a great
job to rectify the rot with in our society. How exactly ksatriyas are supposed
to discipline brahmanas … and that would require some research because they are
not allowed to physically punish them, may be they could … may be ksatriyas
could withdraw their financial support or something like that. I don’t know
exactly how it would be done and how it’s to be done in the modern age also is
… with in ISKCON that’s also … I mean actually establishing actual ksatriyas
it’s difficult to think how that could be done in the modern age because the
ksatriyas are kings, he is not the CEO or head of a department, he is a king
which in a democratic society that’s not allowed to have kings and any absolute
dictator that are there … I mean they are subject to be invaded by America for
having absolute … it happened with Saddaam Hussain he was a king you could say.
So where this is king like rule … well the king of Saudi Arabia is still there,
he is a king in the sense that what … he makes the law but that’s not
considered very good in the modern age how would you have ksatriyas in India or
America which are democratic countries? It requires some research actually …
prayer to see how you could actually have ksatriyas. It’s not just
administrators but administrators with power and power comes from physical
strength and fighting skills. That’s the power of force, the power to punish.
That’s really … the manifestation of ksatriya power comes from. Ultimately the
power comes from Krishna but anyway if the ksatriyas’ endeavor in ISKCON could
be for getting it back on course that would be good. ISKCON is becoming mundane
and is becoming inured to that So there is no doubt that ISKCON has changed a
lot. The ISKCON communications endeavor to change the movement has been
successful and but again it’s a case of having lost your caste and remaining
hungry because in the basic activities temple worship are going on often in a very
poor way to standards that Prabhupada gave. Hari Nama sankirtana is going on
here and there, not much. In many places book distribution is not much
promoted. In the particular group that with in India that very much promotes
the hospital, mid day meals, eye camps and so on, there is not that much
emphasis with in their group on book distribution although between them they do
that also but where as previously in our movement as 2Prabhupada writes in one
of his purports our movement is centered on distribution of books but when we
think of that particular group with in ISKCON we are more likely to think of
hospitals and mid day meals and eye camps then distribution of books. So ISKCON
has changed and my contention is it’s become more mundane and it’s getting
worse and we are inured to that … inured means there is something bad, you get
used to it. So that you just think that it’s normal. Initiated
devotee supporting Sai baba Just like to give an example. This is just from
less then a month ago. One of my disciples who is temporarily living in France
with a husband there told me that in the course of a conversation with an
initiated devotee there, she had said something discouraging about Sai Baba, at
which this initiated devotee became extremely angry and he thought that she was
very wrong in criticizing Sai Baba. Now if at all we have studied Srila
Prabhupada’s books and tried to understand the mood of his preaching then we
can … or if we have lived in ISKCON in the time when Srila Prabhupada was
present and a few year after that we should understand that for someone who is
an initiated devotee with in ISKCON to have any good opinion about Sai Baba
means there is something seriously wrong but may be even more seriously wrong
then that is that when I heard this I wasn’t in the slightest bit surprise, you
see I am not bluffing you. It will become so used to hearing about all these
various deviations that we just think there is nothing extraordinary about it. People
getting used to worse things Just like a few days previous to that incident
which happened in Croatia this lady devotee telling me about her experiences
with the initiated fan of Sai baba, I mean the ISKCON initiated person who was
a fan of Sai baba I gave a lecture in ISKCON in Jhagra which is the capital of
Croatia and at the end of the lecture, a person who seemed he was a new comer may
be … seem like he was coming for the first time or seem very new to our
movement, he asked a question, he said, “Well in my childhood I was abused” and
he asked how to get over that. So afterward Gokulchandra prabhu who was present
in that lecture noted to me privately after the lecture that you see he said
that I was abused in my childhood and no one was surprised, it’s become like a
normal thing, not that it is accepted as a good thing but it’s become so common
place that if someone says I was abused in my childhood then people just, they
don’t become surprised because they just he is normal. In other words something
which is actually abominable, horrible has become so common that no one is
surprised and they think it is normal. So if in our movement we are not
surprised when someone tells us that an initiated devotee with in ISKCON
becomes angry when Sai Baba is criticized there is something … in human society
if child abuse is so common that it doesn’t arouse any surprise, there is
seriously wrong in society. So similarly in the ISKCON society if people have
favorable disposition towards Sai Baba there is something seriously wrong. So
that’s the point I am making that and there are so many things like that years
ago we would have been shocked, it would have been unthinkable with in ISKCON
which are just normal now a days. 2 Journey
Home issues A. Content One thing which is very-very touchy, very sensitive and
people will get upset … I guess some people will hear this on the internet.
It’s very sensitive because one of the most … there is a book written by one of
the … actually it’s ghost written means it was written by someone else on his
behalf, written by one of the … probably the most popular leader with in ISKCON
today. Now that book … I can’t help thinking that if you have shown it to Srila
Prabhupada he would not have been at all pleased because there are pictures of
all these mayavadis and mundane people, mundane, famous, mundane welfare
workers and there are few pictures of Prabhupada there also and it describes
how he met all these different mundane people and there is not a bad word about
any of them, the people that Prabhupad, if he spoke about them at all, would
criticize them and he speaks about how he met Prabhupada and he doesn’t really
say that Prabhupada’s you know … I thought it was going to come to … I read the
book and I thought … it’s very well written by the woman who is paid to write
it, very readable. So I thought we are going to get to the point and I met
Prabhupada and Prabhupada opened my eyes and he made me realize that all these
people were rascals and cheaters which is the word that Prabhupada would
regularly use for them but no such things. It’s just like in each time he would
go to one guru and then there is … he would realize this is not my path and
then he realizes when he met Prabhupada, actually sometime later that this is
my path. In other words everyone has their path and this is my path and there
are all the different paths and you can choose this path or that path or any
other path and at the end of the book he says that now having come to
Prabhupada now I am engaged in helping with hospitals and feeding children and
eyecamps … in other words the message is what he got from Prabhupada was to
have hospitals, eye camps and feeding people and the message to his followers
is that this is what he is … that’s his life, that’s what is central to his
life. So as I see it there are serious problems to that and serious problems
with that … B. Distribution From that group then there were never as
enthusiastic to distribute Prabhupada’s books as they are to distribute this
book which even if anyone read that book for hundreds of thousands of times it
never even get the idea that you were supposed to surrender to Krishna, Krishna
is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the purpose of life is surrender to
Krishna, I never even get the idea. C. Erotic scenes One godbrother told me
that he started reading it but he stopped when he came to the erotic part,
there is an another godbrother told me that, his feeling was that some erotic
or almost erotic scenes that is … it’s not the duty of a sannyasi to write
about such things. So I see it is … that’s another example, I mean I just can’t
imagine what Prabhupada’s response would have been if he saw that book but our
movement has changed, it’s not for the better and if we start to talk about it
there could be so many things. ISKCON Mayapur run by a mafia I mean another
of my GBC godbrothers told me that ISKCON Mayapur is run by a mafia and he gave
an example of how he had to pay a bribe to a devotee who is supposed to do some
official work for him and he complained to one of the leaders of ISKCON Mayapur
who just said, “How much did he ask from you?” and he told the amount and then
he pulled and said, “Here give him…” means he knew the mafia was going on but
he was supportive of it that’s all. So now a days at the present time in India
there is huge outcry against government, corruption and although it would be
very difficult to prove I am fairly sure that there is a lot of corruption
going on in ISKCON India also because the leaders are not … you know they are
just given a free hand and the whole … there is not any close checking of them
and the whole culture of the country is riddled with corruption. So do we just
presume that everyone who comes to ISKCON is a complete saint and they have all
this money coming in and what’s going on? Like I say it’s difficult to prove
but there are serious grounds to consider …
Temples focusing on collecting
funds rather then preaching Especially when we see that in many temples they
are interested in collection so much so that in many temples of ISKCON in India
preacher means someone who goes out and collect money, doesn’t mean someone who
tries to get people to change their lives and surrender to Krishna. And infact
we see in some places in many temples they don’t seem to be even slightly concerned
about preaching to people, to surrender and give their life to Krishna and if
anyone does that they … rather they object to that because it disturbs their
whole ongoing business. Devotees councelled based on mundane
psychology And in their there are so many things. In many cases when devotees
have problems, they are more likely to be councelled on the basis of the
mundane psychology then by reference to sastra.
Standards of deity worship
diminished in India One thing that Srila Prabhupada that he wrote that I am
very afraid that after I leave that the deity worship standard will be
diminished but it is. It’s become accepted with in our society. People who join
they don’t even know that you are supposed to be a Brahmin initiated devotee to
worship the deity. They never heard of such a thing and they make such … they make
their own reasoning that well bhakti is the main thing, Brahmin initiation
isn’t important. So the standards have in many cases very much diminished. So
that’s serious problem. Prabhupada’s books are not encouraged Recently
when I was in America a temple president told me that most of the new comers to
our movement now a days they don’t read Srila Prabhupada’s books, they are not
encouraged to do so and actually they don’t like to because Prabhupada’s books
they … what is said in Prabhupada’s books is not what’s preached with in the
movement and people don’t like to hear it, so many things that are in
Prabhupada’s books. For instance that women are less intelligent then men, to
say that is practically banned in ISKCON now although it’s a point that Srila
Prabhupada makes many times. Ofcourse that point in particular should be understood
very carefully and not used as a stick to bash women but at the same time it is
a point that Prabhupada made many times. So people don’t like to read
Prabhupada’s books because our devotees don’t believe what’s in them and they
want to speak on these things because well I guess they don’t believe what
Prabhupada says. Books other than Prabhupada’s books taking
prominence In some places the idea is that it’s openly promoted that well
Prabhupada’s books they are too difficult to understand so we have other books
by other people, by other members of ISKCON, better you give these to people,
they can understand them more easily. And there is a whole big sub-movement
going on with in ISKCON in India in which they are not allowed to read …
actually there are two of them … two are going on the two groups means a lot of
people are being brought into ISKCON being told that they are not allowed to
read Prabhupada’s books until they get permission, they have to read other
books and they distribute these other books. So I am not saying that other
books are necessarily wrong but to say they shouldn’t read Srila Prabhupada’s
books, it’s just unimaginable how angry Prabhupada would be. But I guess they
don’t care. Some devotees from here recently visited one of these temples which
is supposed to be preaching in very successful, making money, new members but
which is the center of this movement that you have to read other books and not
Prabhupada’s books and it’s all in the book stall, there weren’t Prabhupada’s
books, there are ____ just all kinds of books and then they asked for
Prabhupada’s books, they had to look around and there were just one or two
hidden away somewhere. So those devotees were going there because this center offers
training in how to preach. So they were going there for that and then they just
left, we don’t want this kind of training, we don’t need this sophisticated
training of how not to give Prabhupada’s books to others. By the way I am also
criticized, sometimes people say you see I am engaging my disciples in distributing
my books. That’s true that my disciples do distribute my books. They are meant to
supplement the mission of Srila Prabhupada. They are meant for distribution
also. But my answer to that is yes it’s true but that if you take my average
disciple and compare to the average devotee with in ISKCON you will find on
average my disciples read Prabhupada’s books and distribute Prabhupada’s books
significantly more then do others. So it’s not that I am promoting that my
books and not Prabhupada’s books but rather as supplements like the beginners
guides for Krishna Consciousness that’s by far the most distributed of my books
and that’s to… by reading that … that puts in written form many of the
instructions that Prabhupada verbally imparted for practicing Krishna
Consciousness. So anyway that’s another discussion. Certainly Prabhupada wanted
books to be written by his disciples. He criticized the gaudiya math for not
having producedtheir own books, they are still selling the books of
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati only so he criticized them for that. What could be
the solution? So what do we get from all this? Either ISKCON in general, there
is something very wrong or I am very wrong and I invite you to consider. Is my
perspective simply hypercritical or are there serious … you know things like
GBC members playing in the ISKCON golf competition on Gaur Poornima! I mean any
day is _____ but on Gaur Poornima day when you are supposed to be glorifying
Caitanya Mahaprabhu … there is not something wrong with that? And the GBC
member is not … he is not questioned about that. Case of accusation Few years ago
one GBC member was, one of my godbrothers forced him to make a public apology,
forced him means you see this GBC member has accused this godbrother of using astrology
to seduce women and he said that there are atleast women we can call as evidence
for this and this devotee who is an astrologer, you know his whole reputation
was … with in ISKCON was spoiled and his way of life was ... you know people
didn’t want to come to him and so eventually he in one of the few cases ____
some justice actually and in generally you can’t get justice but he actually …
he said, “Ok you have women, bring one, tell me one” so like this he kept on
challenging him to bring evidence that he had actually done this. So eventually
that GBC member had to make a public apology and apologize the GBC for having …
he even stated this in Mayapur during the GBC meeting. He lied to the whole GBC
about practically … and so they gave an apology and like when on his usual, he continued
as a GBC, I mean shouldn’t have been, shouldn’t have the GBC thought to remove him
for engaging in the nastiest, basic politics against character assassination?
Because he didn’t like that devotee so he didn’t have any actual complaint …
actually he didn’t like anybody… anyway I won’t get into but I mean these things,
I mean there are serious problems. Hrtvikism, Gaudiya math, starting another
movement are not the solutions So people may say ya I am hypercritical,
although it could also be said that it’s just realistic and then why do I … oh
and then some people will say that well you see that shows everything is all
wrong so hrtvikism is the answer or join the Gaudiya math but that doesn’t necessarily
prove the case of … there are different people will say, “Well it’s because of
this or it’s because of that but why don’t you start your own movement?” But
these are not necessarily the answers. I mean the hrtvikvadis they are quite
active in scanning, they go through all lectures that are put on the internet
and they will probably love this one. But the fact that there are problems in
ISKCON doesn’t prove their case and the fact that hrtvikvadis they are also
shown to be corrupt and so many problems and factions among them and all kind
of things, it doesn’t … I am not supporting that as a solution although which
is one reason you know I have been hesitant to say all these things but like I
say people should know atleast where I stand and so is it not hypercritical for
me why do I stay in ISKCON? I sometimes wonder myself but Prabhupada said, he
said, “Not to leave” So that’s a very powerful instruction. Ofcourse sometimes
I feel that I didn’t really… you know I can’t really leave ISKCON but ISKCON
left me so to speak because I am just doing the same things and saying the same
things that I did when I first joined and … but the movement changed, I didn’t
change. So I didn’t leave ISKCON, ISKCON left me. I mean all my friends are
with in ISKCON. I guess principles are higher then friendship but then it has
to be seen as my life is meant to be for the service of Srila Prabhupada. Could
I actually serve Srila Prabhupada’s mission by going outside of ISKCON? And I
will be body that is the body of ISKCON. I am not convinced that I could do so,
I could better serve it. Getting ISKCON in order is a better proposition For
all the wrong things going on still ISKCON is really the only hope for
spreading Krishna Consciousness all over the world. So to try to get ISKCON in
order is a better proposition. It’s not so easy. I mean I am here in Salem, I
am trying with cooperation of you all, especially lead by Gokulchandra Prabhu,
I am trying to set up just what we might call a normal ISKCON center, what a
normal ISKCON center used to be that everyone has to rise early in the morning,
I have the full temple program and we focuses on book distribution and bringing
people to Krishna Consciousness. Difficulty in training people So just trying
to do all of this but it is difficult to train even though we have you know
there is like this little space in this small town here and in other places also
there are some devotees … you could say with in the broader ISKCON they are my
followers but it is difficult to train people with in the present ISKCON
society when there are all these mayavada and sahajiya influences. I mean just
like for instance … and then there is thousands of things you could say someone
you are bringing new to Krishna Consciousness and they go to Mayapur and on the
book stall they pick up the book, the glories of Radharani. And you know they
are just new in Krishna Consciousness and if they get that you know what
conception that they are going to have of Krishna Consciousness. One of my
disciples told me he saw it… one of the devotees had gone to Mayapur, just new
person, he just told him, “Look better you don’t read…please read Bhagavad Gita
as it is” and he took that book from him otherwise he would be lost in you know
in the dream clouds of imaginary prema bhava. So why such books are being
produced and offered to the public? That’s not the example of our acaryas. Prabhupada
hardly talked about Radha, he was the topmost devotee of Radha but it’s a very
intimate subject but just to bring it out in public to everyone, it’s prakrta
sahajiya influence.So with all this mayavada and sahajiya and mundane
influences all around, it’s difficult to train people. You know you don’t want
to train people when they first come that there is this problem, that problem
and then they just get completely discouraged. But then if you don’t tell them
then you know they think well they go to ISKCON Vrindavana for instance and
they see and hear so many strange things and they think well it must be the right
thing to do because it’s ISKCON Vrindavana for instance. Having orders like in
church could be a solution So how to correct the situation? Who will accept
these points? I have several times mentioned to various leaders of our society
that … ofcourse it’s not my idea it’s been floating around to have orders like
in the catholic church they have orders that means the different sub-groups
which they have a certain amount of autonomy but they offer allegiance to the Pope
in Rome. So something like that we could have separate orders where we don’t necessarily
have to go along with, we are a little different that might be a solution. It’s
not really a solution if things are off, if they are wrong but atleast it would
give us some approved space to do what we are doing. Kick from maya How to
rectify the situation? It seems very difficult. It seems that if at all things
are going to get better and then they are going to have to get worst first
because there is no feeling in our movement that there … things are seriously
wrong and rather thinking that well things are right and things get worse and
worse and worse. It seems like we really have to get a good kick from … just
like the karmis when are they going to wake up? They need a kick from maya to
understand their materialistic plans are all useless. So that may be the
situation in our movement also. Past attempts to solve I have attempted to go
through the regular channels to rectify some things which I found frustrating.
I became infamous a few years ago for my open attacks, open means by email which
went out all over the internet on one of my godbrothers who is a … he is passed
away now … popular guru with in our movement and populist you could say, he was
known as the mystic guru so I had some severe exception to some of the things
he was writing in his books. So I did try to behind the scenes going through
the process, discussing with him, having a GBC monitored mediation and all this
but nothing works. So I tried coming out publicly and just blasting that it was
all bogus and that didn’t work either. So I am not sure what to do. I mean you
could … there are devotees who like regularly who are out there on the internet
expressing their perspectives of what’s wrong but … I would rather write books
and for a long term solution you know internet advocacy doesn’t seem to be that
effective, I am not saying it’s all wrong. GBC meetings scenario Just related
with that …I was trying to go through some GBC process of rectifying the … that
in these books there were some really wild things written. So I was called to
meet this godbrother of mine who was making these wild statements in his books
which were widely distributed with in ISKCON and to the public. So I was called
to Mayapur at the time of the GBC meeting and I was asked, “Would you like to
join the plenary session?” All the GBC members together, “You can join it for a
few minute and then you can go off and meet with him.” So I said ok and I came
in and I saw there is a huge long table with all the GBC members and now I was
present there. Mostly men but a few women there also. So there were like you
know there would be like two sannyasis and one women sitting and three or four sannyasis
… mostly sannyasis and then some women … I thought well this is a bit strange you
know the sannyasis and women all sitting up the table. So I went and took a
spot to sit not next to any woman and I just looked to my left and I saw there
was a painting, it is an abstract painting which means impersonalism and I saw
the tiger I couldn’t ____ what’s it supposed to be _____ abstract. Then I saw
the title and it was like the name of some place in Navdvipa dhama and when I
looked it at a bit more I could work out that it was like some you know in a
very abstract way it’s supposed to be some scene in Navadvipa dhama but abstract
style which like I say it’s impersonalistic. I looked all around the rooms and
the room is full of all these abstract paintings. So then the incoming chairman
of the GBC started his speech. So this is the first speech in the GBC meeting
of … the first speech in the meeting of the whole year and for about the first
ten minutes he would spoke about some karmic movie that he had been to. So you
know first I walked in saw men and women all mixed up then I saw abstract
paintings and then a meeting of all the leaders which is supposed to discuss how
to promote the Sankirtana movement and then there is just this telling about
some Monty Python movie that he has been to. I just thought this is very-very
strange. GBC glorifying books When that devotee who was writing those strange
books when he passed away the GBC gave a condolence or obituary or something
like that and they noted one of his great contributions was his books and I was
on a campaign to say that these books are bogus, all kinds of things, really
weird things in them. So then I thought, “Well that’s just show our movement is
sahajiya movement because if they are praising these books which are completely
bogus then what is that?” My Present response to leader’s meeting So recently I
have been invited to a leader’s meeting in which different leaders from ISKCON are
supposed to meet and discuss the proposed proposals for the GBC and give their
input in Mayapur just before the GBC meeting. So I appreciate that because it’s
been for many years that we just have to accept whatever the GBC say. They can
just make rules without discussing with anyone and you know just like overnight
in the year00 they just changed the social ethos of ISKCON by implementing the
women’s right bill or something like this without discussing with the members
of ISKCON who ______ So I appreciate that but for me it’s too late. Ten years
ago I might have gone but now I told the devotee who is organizing that meeting
that I don’t want to go because I don’t agree with the idea of sitting around, discussing
with women which is part of the ethos in ISKCON today. Where as Prabhupada he wasn’t
… he was clearly not against … he was not for women having leadership roles. I
mean he wrote against it several times in his books. He never made any woman
GBCs or temple presidents with one exception in the very early days he made a
woman a temple president. So I disagree that what to speak of sannyasis, any
man should sit around for hours discussing with women … I am not against women,
speak with them a little but women will discuss with men means their fathers,
their intimate relatives. But the idea that men and women just all mix up and
speak so many things, I am against that, I don’t see that that’s part of the
culture that we are supposed to be instituting. So that’s one reason I told I
don’t want to go. But the another reason is I think it’s … like I say it’s too
far gone … the ideas that I have… I have means my understanding of what Srila
Prabhupada taught us and it’s demonstrably closer to what Prabhupada said then
the lot of things that are going on now today. So I don’t think anything at
this point it’s going to change like I say, you can say, “This is not right,
that’s not right” but if at all things are going to get better it’s going to
get worse, it’s going to have to get worse first. Purpose of all this
discussion So then why am I speaking all these things anyway? Well because
people ask me, I should atleast make it clear to those who are coming to me
what my position is and if they want … people ask me to be their disciples so
they should know what I stand for otherwise they may be disappointed later on,
I may be disappointed later if they don’t like the stance that I made … it may
seem … like I say hypercritical of so many sincere devotees. Actual criterion
of sincerity or earnestness Ya I am sure so many devotees are sincere but who
are doing many other things that I am criticizing here or saying that are wrong
but what is the actual criterion of sincerity? I mean there are many Christians
in this country are very sincere about converting people to Hindus to
Christianity and when they get baptized they have to publicly … one of the
things they have to do is publicly rip up their pictures of Krishna and various
hindu Gods and stamp on the pictures. So the Christians are very sincere, they
think that they are doing something good for the people but … now I am not saying
that our devotees are doing mid day meal and all that are in the same category
as those Christians but the point is that sincerity or earnestness is not in
and of itself the prime … earnestness and sincerity are not necessarily exactly
the same thing. Their earnestness that should be first of all for the right
thing because you can be very earnest and determined and dedicated to doing …
but if it’s not the right thing then it’s the wrong thing. And even if we open
many temples and we have many people joining and so many things, lots of money,
lot of public appreciation but if for any reason Srila Prabhupada is not
pleased then it’s all useless that’s all. And I am … I can always say it’s my
opinion because I am not saying I am the obituary (?) of the truth but that
much in our society is not what Prabhupada actually wanted us to do. So … and
speaking this lecture with the idea of putting it on the internet, I doubt it
will make much effect. It’s not that you know that this lecture is … everyone
is going to get … “Ok we are now going to change ISKCON, make it better” That
it may be the effect that some people will criticize me for being overly critical
of others or some people will say, “Yes that was very good” and you know after
short time it will be forgotten. Oh another thing I made several attempts to go
through the GBC. Somehow or other it’s all ended …got frustrated. So previously
to make such statements one would have been smashed by the powers that … now a
days it’s more likely to be ignored or politely acknowledged or may be you know
some “Yes we are very concerned” but I don’t expect making this public ____
effect any great change. But like I say for those who are approaching me
atleast to them they can be clear that I perceive that there are many things …
our movement is basically off the track, not properly following Srila
Prabhupada. I know this is very discouraging, it may sound very discouraging but
the good news is you still can follow Srila Prabhupada and whatever anyone does
to change this way and that way … Prabhupada’s books are still there.
Prabhupada he knew … put his books out. He said that even if everyone goes
away, my books are there and by reading the books people will again take it up.
Center at Salem And atleast here … again I am saying as I perceive it here we
are following Krishna Conscious and Srila Prabhupada in a manner that is
actually conducive to spiritual advancement. It’s not mixed up with mundane
psychology, mundane welfare or a… mundane welfare work or if you say that the mid
day meals etc. is not mundane welfare work, atleast it’s presented as if it’s
mundane welfare work. So it’s a close approximation of mundane welfare work and
where it begins or ends is subject to discussion. So atleast here we are trying
to make that … make that ethos in which we can practice Krishna Consciousness
as Srila Prabhupada wanted us to without making various changes this way, that
way and the other way. And we find that atleast some people are appreciating
that and finding that there is a vibrant, uplifting, spiritual atmosphere here
and we find that. Especially for festivals, more and more devotees are coming,
fairly long distances to join in the festivals and rather attend here than in
the center in their own town because they find it a better spiritual
atmosphere. So Hare Krishna! Any questions or comments on this? Like I say this
might elicit … when it goes on the internet it might elicit some responses and this
and that and people may write to me. I am not much into having protracted arguments
by email or on the internet because I see it doesn’t go anywhere. So I have
stated my case and like I say I am not going to … I don’t intend to get into a
knitty-gritty defense of every little point. Can’t spend all my time get these
email debates they go on and on and on at the end no one changes their
positions anyway. So what’s the point? Ya any thing? There are no big kirtans
after this _________ what we mostly do you know lot of kirtana, recover from
all of this. Few Strange things in our movement Experience at 3 days leader’s
meeting I mean there are so many things that can be said. One of my disciples
he said after being to a leader’s meeting … 3 days leader’s meeting, “Need
about two weeks to recover from it”, feel so contaminated by the association of
people. I went to one of them once ______ in this area. Were you there I think
in Bangalore? You know after sometime I just said, “Hey let’s have a kirtana”
Because just trying to make a spiritual atmosphere. It was just all so mundane
and arguing and this and that and so I did a kirtana which no one could refuse
but no one was very enthusiastic for it either. 3BTG So I remember years ago in
the BTG printed from America… so many things that … devotee wrote an article
about said, “Oh I just attended another boring BTG editor’s meeting” Why boring?
I mean it should be the most enlivening thing. Presenting a magazine that’s
meant for the respiritualization of human society, you are saying it’s boring.
I mean if you start there is no end to strange things that have entered our
movement. And it’s not just me saying by the way, it’s not my own personal
trip. Referring woman as prabhu Even you see the GBC in any matter they send
out they always refer to woman as prabhu as one of the most prominent and
respected GBC members out on his … what you call that blog? When they speak
something… webcast? Blog? When it’s spoken it’s also called a blog? So he
replied to this question what do you think of calling woman prabhu? And he
openly said it’s all nonsense. So he is also saying that atleast one of the
things that’s been introduced in our movement recently by or with in the GBC is
nonsense. So atleast on some issues there is something, people agree with. On
that issue also Harisauri Prabhu who is Prabhupada’s servant over a period of a
few years, all the time he was with Prabhupada he never once heard Prabhupada
or anyone else in ISKCON calling woman prabhu. And now a days if you don’t call
them prabhu they become upset. It’s considered to be a great crime by some people.
So anything? Questions and Answers Q. Not clearly audible Ans In Guruvayor they
sell prasadam in the temple itself to general public. Their cooking is by
machine. In Guruvayor also it’s cooked in machine? No it’s cooked in the
traditional method by brahmanas over fires. … They have introduced steam
cooking. Ya that’s a good program that I have said several times to
Gokulchandra prabhu, I also said just yesterday that it’s an important thing we
have to start that people will come … like in Udipi and in Guruvayor full meal
prasad to anyone who comes. So that’s a good program, we should do that. And we
see in Udipi so many students go there daily. No one complains, they give them prasadam.
So we can do that. In Gainesville, in Florida for many years they are being
serving prasadam to the students there, mid day … it was free I believe and now
they do it at a very low price and they generally have kirtana going on, they
set it on the lawn. So that’s well appreciated. That’s good Q. They say, “By
Bhakti Vedanta hospital we are making many devotees” (Paraphrased as not clearly
audible)? Ans We are making devotees by this, by Bhakti Vedanta hospital. Ya
but again it’s like that… I quoted that from Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati if we
just compromise this philosophy a bit there would be so many more people would
come and join but he didn’t. So if you compromise the philosophy a bit so many
more people would come but they won’t have a 3clear understanding of what
bhakti is. So some good things, allright, they may become vegetarian and chant
Hare Krishna but they won’t get a proper understanding of the philosophy if
it’s not taught. It’s a fact that if you just make things a little less strict
then people can come much more easily but the problem is that the essence is lost.
They will become devotees and then they will also want to go, open hospitals
and approach people and tell people, “You see we are helping the poor, this,
that and the other” which is not our philosophy to help people on the … or as a
prime activity of our movement to help people on the bodily level. It’s very
clear from this reply to the Andhra Pradesh Relief Committee. Prabhupada could
have agreed. It was not a big thing to ask to have a collection for … that’s all
they asked for is a collection to help their activities. Prabhupada refused and
said no, he practically told them that your whole idea is demoniac. Q. Why is
all this happening when Prabhupada’s books are there? Ans Well I guess people
aren’t reading Prabhupada’s books. And that’s another common thing you will
find people they are initiated ten years and they haven’t read even one canto
of Bhagavatam and it’s quite common. You know people are initiated and they
don’t have any idea that they are not supposed to worship demigods, they are
not supposed to eat karmi food, it’s become very cheap. The quality is being
sacrificed for the sake of quantity. So why is its happening? Well ask the
people who are propagating all these things. Why are they doing this? Maya
doesn’t sleep. Q. In case of establishing Varnasrama projects, many people
propose if we make the standards little less strict many people will come but
we see from a logic that we make the standards less strict but because of that
at some point we will fail. So does this same thing apply to that also, by
establishing Varnasrama that ok we will not keep standards very strict and
after that … Ans The idea that we don’t make standards very strict then many
people can come but in Varnasrama communities or temple communities or
whatever. But what we factually see is if the standards aren’t very strict then
the whole project fails. So purity is the force. It’s a great art to keep
strong standards and at the same time be flexible enough to allow for people’s weaknesses
but once you institutionalize those standards then everything is lost. Just
like for instance in the west if devotees divorce, remarry, it just considered
normal. There is nothing really that wrong of it. That’s a compromise, that’s a
compromise with illicit sex. So that’s a problem but … The thing is that the
problem is there and it becomes so common and we don’t know what to do and then
we don’t think of it as a problem anymore, still a problem. It’s just like AIDS
is a problem but people don’t talk about it that much, it’s just people go on dying
all around us because what can you do. So like that child abuse, people know
it’s a problem but what can you do, you have to go on with life so you may
think you know things are so bad so will just go along with it. But if we go
along with it then there is no hope of any improvement. I am pretty heavy on my
disciples who divorce. I don’t encourage in any way whatsoever. And they may
become discouraged and go away from devotional service but what do you do? If
you say, “Ok Ok it’s allright, never mind” and then it becomes accepted. So
what do you do? You sacrifice the individual or the standards. It’s not easy. Q.
How is it possible that there are sannyasis in the GBC when sannyasis are not
supposed to do politics? Ans Well the GBCs is also not supposed to do politics
but it’s inevitable when there is an organization and there is power and money
and there is people who are less then paramhamsas that will be what … if it
wasn’t ISKCON we would call politics. So these things go on. Therefore some
people propose that there should be no sannyasis on the GBCs. That was
Prabhupada’s original idea to have grhasthas but then he changed that and he …
It’s difficult. I mean an institution means there are going to be problems.
Religion or actual religion is you can’t institutionalize …they are very ____
to institutionalize it, goes against the whole spirit but on the other hand we
require an institution. So any way may be at some point I will discuss all
these things in a book. Q. Not audible Ans One can still follow Srila
Prabhupada despite all of this. Ya one can do but it can become quite difficult
to do so also. Especially if you are surrounded or you don’t have association
of others who are doing so or who ______ to be doing so but in … it’s just like
you may be in a city where there are literally hundreds of devotees … I am
thinking of a particular city not very far from here but in which pretty much
all of them regularly eat karmi food and they … if anyone wants to not do that
they discourage them and they say you should take wife out to a restaurant
every so often ____ turned out karmi restaurant. So you want to have
association of devotees but do you want to associate with devotees who are
saying such things and doing such things. So you can follow Srila Prabhupada
but it’s a difficult path. It’s easier to not to, to go with the flow but you
have to see where the flow is going. So you can do but it’s not always going to
be easy. Q. Not clearly audible Ans To preach is the only solution. Ya the
positive is the only solution. So that’s why I said that’s what we are trying
to do here, to do something in the right way, preaching the right thing… Ya
that’s a problem Vijay …Well I shouldn’t have said that … a prominent book distributor
in America told me that there is only one or two… if he meets people who are interested
and want to visit our centers, he said there is only one or two centers in the
whole of America that he would recommend any person to go to because he is
afraid if he goes to … there are more likely to get a bad impression of Krishna
Consciousness rather then what enlivens them in the book when they go to the
temple they don’t find the same thing. Several years ago a leading devotee in
Bangladesh he told me that someone has asked him, a member of the public had
asked him, “Should we follow what you do or what’s in your books?”So even the
public can see. So may be that will be the hope also … book distribution as
that goes on more and more and as … hopefully it will go on more and more and
more … they are certain envious people with in our movement who want to stop
that. That’s another thing. Years ago there was a north American GBC meeting
about how to revive the preaching in America and the first proposal they bought
up was to stop book distribution. That’s the answer. ________ “See people can’t
relate to it and this and that” ____ really seriously, seriously off. So but as
the books be distributed more and more then it may be that the members of the
public themselves demand that you know you give us what’s in the books. That
may be the hope. Ok Hare Krishna!
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