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Basu Ghosh Das Humble request to share all the notes I posted so far on female diksha guru, here and before...
Elina Trushkina (Letter to Bhaktivedanta Manor July 27 1973)
Next January there will be an examination on this Bhagavad-gita. Papers will be sent by me to all centers, and those securing the minimum passing grade will be given the title as Bhakti-sastri. Similarly, another examination will be held on Lord Caitanya's Appearance Day in February, 1970 and it will be upon Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Those passing will get the title of Bhakti-vaibhava. Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971 on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program. So we should not simply publish these books for reading by outsiders, but our students must be well versed in all of our books so that we can be prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization.
Next January there will be an examination on this Bhagavad-gita. Papers will be sent by me to all centers, and those securing the minimum passing grade will be given the title as Bhakti-sastri. Similarly, another examination will be held on Lord Caitanya's Appearance Day in February, 1970 and it will be upon Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Those passing will get the title of Bhakti-vaibhava. Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971 on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program. So we should not simply publish these books for reading by outsiders, but our students must be well versed in all of our books so that we can be prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization.
Basu Ghosh Das Bhakta Priya - Read SP's purport to SB 4.12.32 and then try to understand that what he wrote, above was "general encouragement":
[What does, "being a woman", mean, below? Kindly explain..]...See more
[What does, "being a woman", mean, below? Kindly explain..]...See more
Elina Trushkina Prabhu, the main point here is that because Suniti was his mother, that's why she couldn't be a diksa-guru for Dhruva Maharaj, not because she was a woman... The similar way, Bhaktivinoda Thakura couldn't be diksa-guru for Bhaktisddhanta Saraswati, because he was his father.
Basu Ghosh Das Bhakta Priya - Mataji, I'm sorry, but Prabhupada clearly wrote: "being a woman". Yes, he also wrote "specifically his mother". How does this statement "specifically his mother" negate "being a woman"? Your logic is exactly this!
Plus, by advocating "female diksha guru" -- a "formal institutional post" in ISKCON, you negate the many statements of Prabhupada regarding "stridharma", the duties of women.
Here is more - from a letter I wrote to a sannyasi godbrother:
"Prabhupada: In the history of India there is no woman leader. Throughout Mahabharata you'll find... Mahabharata is the greater history, history of greater India. Maha means "greater," and bharata. So "Greater Bharata." That means this whole planet. So you won't find woman leader."
[note that in ISKCON diksha gurus ARE leaders!]
Room Conversation
March 24, 1977, Bombay
770324R1-BOMBAY 23:06
(you can hear the conversation online: http://prabhupadavani.org/.../101-200/770324R1-BOMBAY.html)
My contention is that if you study the totality of Prabhupada's teachings regarding "stridharma" -- the duties of women -- you will find that it was his opinion that a women's duties are that of "grihini" -- housewife -- and "mata" - mother, etc.
Not that women should be a "formal institutional leader".
If that was the case, Prabhupada would have given sannyas to women, and made them temple presidents and GBCs of his ISKCON.
The historical record is that neither he did so, nor did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarawati Thakur.
Those who are advocating this have not, it seems, studied Prabhupada's teachings with an unbiased outlook, but are influenced by "present day egalitarian thought".
Also, besides Prabhupada's expressed opinion that a women cannot be a diksha guru, we must consult shastras in this regard:
sruti-smriti-puranadi-
pancaratra-vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
[BRS 1.2.101]
"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanishads, puranas and Narada-pancaratra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society." (Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu 1.2.101)
Those who are very advanced in knowledge and are situated in the mode of goodness follow the Vedic instructions of the sruti and smriti and other religious scriptures, including the pancaratriki-vidhi. Without understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this way, one only creates a disturbance.
In this age of Kali, so many gurus have sprung up, and because they do not refer to the sruti-smriti-puranadi-pancaratrika-vidhi [BRS 1.2.101], they are creating a great disturbance in the world in regard to understanding the
Absolute Truth. However, those who follow the pancaratriki-vidhi under the guidance of a proper spiritual master can understand the Absolute Truth.
It is said, pancaratrasya kritsnasya vakta tu bhagavan svayam: the pancaratra system is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like Bhagavad-gita. Vasudeva-sarana vidur anjasaiva: the truth can be understood only by one who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Vasudeva."
(SP in his purport on SB 8.10.12)
Proposing female diksha guru runs contrary to the varnashram dharma/vedic concept of stridharma that Prabhupadha propagated, and thus it violates the above mentioned verse written by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu (BRS).
In Prabhupada's lecture given at Bombay on November 5, 1974 on Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.25.5-6, he said:
"So this Kardama Muni did it. Because he was a yogi, he strictly followed the principle. So as soon as Kapiladeva was grown up, the mother, Devahuti, was given in His charge and Kardama Muni left home. Therefore it is said that pitari prasthite aranyam matuh priya-cikirsaya. Now it is the duty of
the son. Women should be under the protection. In the Manu-samhita it is said that woman should not be given freedom. Na stri svatantryam arhati.
They cannot properly utilize freedom. It is better to remain dependent. That is very good. Independent woman cannot be happy. That's a fact. We have seen in the Western countries, on, in the name of independence, so many women are unhappy. So that is not recommended in the Vedic
civilization and on the varnasrama-dharma."
Plus, by advocating "female diksha guru" -- a "formal institutional post" in ISKCON, you negate the many statements of Prabhupada regarding "stridharma", the duties of women.
Here is more - from a letter I wrote to a sannyasi godbrother:
"Prabhupada: In the history of India there is no woman leader. Throughout Mahabharata you'll find... Mahabharata is the greater history, history of greater India. Maha means "greater," and bharata. So "Greater Bharata." That means this whole planet. So you won't find woman leader."
[note that in ISKCON diksha gurus ARE leaders!]
Room Conversation
March 24, 1977, Bombay
770324R1-BOMBAY 23:06
(you can hear the conversation online: http://prabhupadavani.org/.../101-200/770324R1-BOMBAY.html)
My contention is that if you study the totality of Prabhupada's teachings regarding "stridharma" -- the duties of women -- you will find that it was his opinion that a women's duties are that of "grihini" -- housewife -- and "mata" - mother, etc.
Not that women should be a "formal institutional leader".
If that was the case, Prabhupada would have given sannyas to women, and made them temple presidents and GBCs of his ISKCON.
The historical record is that neither he did so, nor did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarawati Thakur.
Those who are advocating this have not, it seems, studied Prabhupada's teachings with an unbiased outlook, but are influenced by "present day egalitarian thought".
Also, besides Prabhupada's expressed opinion that a women cannot be a diksha guru, we must consult shastras in this regard:
sruti-smriti-puranadi-
pancaratra-vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
[BRS 1.2.101]
"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanishads, puranas and Narada-pancaratra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society." (Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu 1.2.101)
Those who are very advanced in knowledge and are situated in the mode of goodness follow the Vedic instructions of the sruti and smriti and other religious scriptures, including the pancaratriki-vidhi. Without understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this way, one only creates a disturbance.
In this age of Kali, so many gurus have sprung up, and because they do not refer to the sruti-smriti-puranadi-pancaratrika-vidhi [BRS 1.2.101], they are creating a great disturbance in the world in regard to understanding the
Absolute Truth. However, those who follow the pancaratriki-vidhi under the guidance of a proper spiritual master can understand the Absolute Truth.
It is said, pancaratrasya kritsnasya vakta tu bhagavan svayam: the pancaratra system is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like Bhagavad-gita. Vasudeva-sarana vidur anjasaiva: the truth can be understood only by one who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Vasudeva."
(SP in his purport on SB 8.10.12)
Proposing female diksha guru runs contrary to the varnashram dharma/vedic concept of stridharma that Prabhupadha propagated, and thus it violates the above mentioned verse written by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu (BRS).
In Prabhupada's lecture given at Bombay on November 5, 1974 on Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.25.5-6, he said:
"So this Kardama Muni did it. Because he was a yogi, he strictly followed the principle. So as soon as Kapiladeva was grown up, the mother, Devahuti, was given in His charge and Kardama Muni left home. Therefore it is said that pitari prasthite aranyam matuh priya-cikirsaya. Now it is the duty of
the son. Women should be under the protection. In the Manu-samhita it is said that woman should not be given freedom. Na stri svatantryam arhati.
They cannot properly utilize freedom. It is better to remain dependent. That is very good. Independent woman cannot be happy. That's a fact. We have seen in the Western countries, on, in the name of independence, so many women are unhappy. So that is not recommended in the Vedic
civilization and on the varnasrama-dharma."
Elina Trushkina If so why Srila Prabhupada asked Yamuna dd to become a full GBC member?
Basu Ghosh Das Bhakta Priya Devi Dasi - actually, he didn't. He did say -- as I recall -- that "if she was a man" she could be a GBC. Historical fact is that Prabhupada did not make even one woman a GBC or a TP.
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