Question by Prof. Suthers Professor of Comparitive Religions, Ohio State University : --
Do you recognize caste distinction? The caste Hindus look down upon the other classes with an eye of contempt and neglect. Do you too do so?
A: -- As the judgment of the Vaishnava Philosophy is favourable towards the service of God, the technologies giving expression to it are also different from those of the ordinary judgments of moralists or other sects. You have already heard that the Vaishnavas have no regard for the morality or ethical principles of atheists. They do not also pay much respect to the reality of the moral principles of the theists in whose judgment worship of God is only of secondary importance. They say that the service of God or love of God is the principal matter. Other matters should be helpful and subservient to that principal matter. When the two things, viz., innate tendency and circumstance of man become ready to be helpful towards the principal matter viz., God's service, then is established a good social order known as Daiva Varnasrama (Divine System of castes and stages of life). Till the natural tendency of the human soul is fully manifest, the violation of this order causes much disorder and difficulty both individually and aggregately. This caste system follows man's nature and predilection. It is scientific to ascertain one's caste in accordance with one's natural predilection. Much disturbance is created, both individually and aggregately, on account of the non-acceptance of this inviolable scientific principle of natural predilection as observed and promulgated by our ancient sages of vast experience, and the wrong adoption of the seminal principle only i.e., the principle of determining caste by birth alone. It is due to the fact that this principle of caste determination was at one time perfect and nice at all points in India, that even this day the Indians are able to stand erect with a challenging mood before the world on the glorious foundation of the past. If we examine the present social system of the Europeans, we find that whatever beauty we find in that system has as its source the determination of the caste or social order according to natural predilection. There we find that a person having a martial tendency (i.e., that for the life of a Kshatriya) joins the army; another with a tendency of a Vaisya is engaged in improving commerce; those with the tendency peculiar to Shudras serve others. No society can work well, if it does not, more or less, adopt the caste system based on natural inclination in some form or another. Even among the European natives in marital relationships and during social feasts a distinction is made between the higher and lower forms of society governed by natural predilection to which the participants belong. Thought the natural caste system is to a certain extent adopted by the European Society, it has not yet acquired scientific perfection. It can do so alongside of the progress in civilization and knowledge. In India, however, this system attained to perfection on the basis of the determination of the natural predilection. The great history of India, viz., the Mahabharata, gives thousands of instances to prove this fact. It is on account of the fact that in India such a system was based on a scientific foundation that all other nations of the world adored the Indians as their spiritual guides. Even the people of Egypt, China, etc., received instructions in all matters with their heads bent down before Indians.
We find in the ancient history of India that formerly there was only one caste and that later on society became most scientifically divined into the castes of Brahmanas, Kshatriya etc., according to disparity in the instinctive inclination for the service of Godhead. The Acharya placed one in the higher or lower grade of caste system according as the degree of liking for God's service was high or low. Those who were attached towards this service with the strongest devout ardour and as such evinced the greatest intelligence became Brahmanas. They formed the head of the huge body of the society. According to the guidance of this head were conducted the hands, the thighs and the legs, viz., the Kshatriyas, Vaisyas and Shudras respectively.
Please consider this. It is this head of ours that occupies the highest place in our body, and it is the propellant of all our senses. What need is there to say more, when all the senses, viz., the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue and the skin are all combined in the head. It is there that these along with the mind, intellect and egoism, are all settled. When any other limb becomes disordered, its work may be conducted in some other way; for example, when a hand is amputated, oftentimes its function is managed by means of fixing up an artificial hand in its place. But when the brain becomes defective or when the head is decapitated, none of the limbs like the hands, legs, etc., can work. In the same way, the head of the social body, which guides its intelligence indicates the faculty of the Brahmana. So prayer is offered for being directed with the mood for serving God in the Gayatri-mantra (Rig Vedic hymn) to be daily recited by a Brahmana with a worshipful spirit. The Brahmanas have no other intellectual aptitude than such an ardent mood of service to God-head. One is degraded to a Kshatriya, Vaisya or Shudra according to the degree of his fall from that ardent mood of divine service, under the guidance of some other motive. The Brahmanas represent the brain and the mouth. The function of the brain is to regulate all with the aptitude of devotion towards God, and that of the mowth [sic] is to propagate the accounts about God. It is these Brahmanas that are the real owners of everything; because they are the Goswamis or masters of the senses i.e., servitors of God. They do not misappropriate anything to their own use, but they appropriate everything to God. For this all persons of the society confide in them and choose them as their spiritual guides. They who, instead of accepting such a Brahmana, rather bear a grudge against him, fall off from the path of all good. After this brain and mouth comes the consideration of the arms to which are compared the Kshatriyas then that of the thighs which the Vaishyas represent, and then come the Shudras, who, on account of their base character and unsteady mind are likened to the feet. And those whose lives are altogether uncontrolled are known as Antyajas (untouchables) and regarded as outside the group of the four classes, as above. The Vaishnava Philosophy recognizes Daiva Varnasrama Dharma which implies classification according to the divine system by which men are divided into castes according to their natural predilection. In the present society is found its corrupted form. There arises no question of hating or disregarding any body according to the system of Varnasrama recognised by Mahaprabhu Shri Chaitanya Deva or according to the process of culturing devotion to God as shown by Him, which is ever beyond that system. In the teaching given by Him there is found instruction to show respect to every creature in its relationship with God. The judgment of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is far superior to the slight improvement of the condition of the lower castes as proposed by the modern social reformers, nay, it far excels even the impartial equality as taught in the Gita. The proposal of the worldly-minded moralists for slightly raising the status of the lower forms of society has some extraneous motive as its cause; there are various purposes hiding behind it, such as political objects, personal interests, motive for acquiring fame and such other ends. These subordinate principles have given rise to attempts for uplifting the lower castes, which are of an extremely worldly character and clearly betrary [sic] their hypocrisy. The instruction in the Gita to look on all as equal to the self from the principle that all are souls is several times more elevated than they and is free from the worldly dirt. But the teaching of Shri Chaitanya Deva is not merely prohibitive of worldliness and based on impartiality, but it is a positive one of the character of transcendentalism or of a supra-mundane type.
Shri Chaitanya Deva wants to engage all jivas in the service of God and thereby to elevate them to the highest status. He converts a crow to Garuda (the prince of Eagles). The religion promulgated by Him is not meant for Bengal alone, nor for India even, but for all countries, all villages. His is the universal religion for all creatures. So has He said: "My Name will be propagated in all towns, all villages that exist in the world." His universal religion of love attracted animals, trees, grass, shrubs, creepers and even the ferocious creatures like tigers, etc., from their outward identification to the inward one of the very essential constitution, having been spread among them too.
The religion as promulgated by Him is that of the soul; and not that of the society, physical, mental and moral, and is not restricted to the usual form of devotion of the servant to the Majestic Lord. Every jiva is entitled to culture His religion, for it is property belonging to every jiva. His religion discovers the innate nature of the jiva soul and is manifested in the unabated plenary love for God. The message of love as propagated by Him is not merely the instruction of pseudo-love founded on gratitude. According to Him, Krishna is the Absolute Personality, the Spiritual Despot. The religion of love consists in the full gratification of His Senses. The jiva should be the fuel to the fire of the gratification of the Senses of the unrestrained Autocrat Whose Will is law. It is the service of that Autocrat under the guidance of those (devotees) who are well established in the eternal service of the gratification of the Senses of Krishna (Who is the very Figure embodying the succulence in pleasure) that is the object to be accomplished by a jiva and also the means to that end. The difference between the Vaishnava Philosophy and all the other philosophies of the world lies in the fact that in the former both the object for accomplishment and the means leading to it are identical without any distinction. The means when purified and matured reveal themselves as the Object. According to the Gaudiya Philosophy the chanting of the mellifluous Name of God constitutes both the end and the means for it. This doctrine concerning the Name of God is a main feature of this Philosophy.
"I do not know, how fortunate I am to have met your Holiness and got spiritually enlightened in this manner," said the interlocutor at the end.
Do you recognize caste distinction? The caste Hindus look down upon the other classes with an eye of contempt and neglect. Do you too do so?
A: -- As the judgment of the Vaishnava Philosophy is favourable towards the service of God, the technologies giving expression to it are also different from those of the ordinary judgments of moralists or other sects. You have already heard that the Vaishnavas have no regard for the morality or ethical principles of atheists. They do not also pay much respect to the reality of the moral principles of the theists in whose judgment worship of God is only of secondary importance. They say that the service of God or love of God is the principal matter. Other matters should be helpful and subservient to that principal matter. When the two things, viz., innate tendency and circumstance of man become ready to be helpful towards the principal matter viz., God's service, then is established a good social order known as Daiva Varnasrama (Divine System of castes and stages of life). Till the natural tendency of the human soul is fully manifest, the violation of this order causes much disorder and difficulty both individually and aggregately. This caste system follows man's nature and predilection. It is scientific to ascertain one's caste in accordance with one's natural predilection. Much disturbance is created, both individually and aggregately, on account of the non-acceptance of this inviolable scientific principle of natural predilection as observed and promulgated by our ancient sages of vast experience, and the wrong adoption of the seminal principle only i.e., the principle of determining caste by birth alone. It is due to the fact that this principle of caste determination was at one time perfect and nice at all points in India, that even this day the Indians are able to stand erect with a challenging mood before the world on the glorious foundation of the past. If we examine the present social system of the Europeans, we find that whatever beauty we find in that system has as its source the determination of the caste or social order according to natural predilection. There we find that a person having a martial tendency (i.e., that for the life of a Kshatriya) joins the army; another with a tendency of a Vaisya is engaged in improving commerce; those with the tendency peculiar to Shudras serve others. No society can work well, if it does not, more or less, adopt the caste system based on natural inclination in some form or another. Even among the European natives in marital relationships and during social feasts a distinction is made between the higher and lower forms of society governed by natural predilection to which the participants belong. Thought the natural caste system is to a certain extent adopted by the European Society, it has not yet acquired scientific perfection. It can do so alongside of the progress in civilization and knowledge. In India, however, this system attained to perfection on the basis of the determination of the natural predilection. The great history of India, viz., the Mahabharata, gives thousands of instances to prove this fact. It is on account of the fact that in India such a system was based on a scientific foundation that all other nations of the world adored the Indians as their spiritual guides. Even the people of Egypt, China, etc., received instructions in all matters with their heads bent down before Indians.
We find in the ancient history of India that formerly there was only one caste and that later on society became most scientifically divined into the castes of Brahmanas, Kshatriya etc., according to disparity in the instinctive inclination for the service of Godhead. The Acharya placed one in the higher or lower grade of caste system according as the degree of liking for God's service was high or low. Those who were attached towards this service with the strongest devout ardour and as such evinced the greatest intelligence became Brahmanas. They formed the head of the huge body of the society. According to the guidance of this head were conducted the hands, the thighs and the legs, viz., the Kshatriyas, Vaisyas and Shudras respectively.
Please consider this. It is this head of ours that occupies the highest place in our body, and it is the propellant of all our senses. What need is there to say more, when all the senses, viz., the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue and the skin are all combined in the head. It is there that these along with the mind, intellect and egoism, are all settled. When any other limb becomes disordered, its work may be conducted in some other way; for example, when a hand is amputated, oftentimes its function is managed by means of fixing up an artificial hand in its place. But when the brain becomes defective or when the head is decapitated, none of the limbs like the hands, legs, etc., can work. In the same way, the head of the social body, which guides its intelligence indicates the faculty of the Brahmana. So prayer is offered for being directed with the mood for serving God in the Gayatri-mantra (Rig Vedic hymn) to be daily recited by a Brahmana with a worshipful spirit. The Brahmanas have no other intellectual aptitude than such an ardent mood of service to God-head. One is degraded to a Kshatriya, Vaisya or Shudra according to the degree of his fall from that ardent mood of divine service, under the guidance of some other motive. The Brahmanas represent the brain and the mouth. The function of the brain is to regulate all with the aptitude of devotion towards God, and that of the mowth [sic] is to propagate the accounts about God. It is these Brahmanas that are the real owners of everything; because they are the Goswamis or masters of the senses i.e., servitors of God. They do not misappropriate anything to their own use, but they appropriate everything to God. For this all persons of the society confide in them and choose them as their spiritual guides. They who, instead of accepting such a Brahmana, rather bear a grudge against him, fall off from the path of all good. After this brain and mouth comes the consideration of the arms to which are compared the Kshatriyas then that of the thighs which the Vaishyas represent, and then come the Shudras, who, on account of their base character and unsteady mind are likened to the feet. And those whose lives are altogether uncontrolled are known as Antyajas (untouchables) and regarded as outside the group of the four classes, as above. The Vaishnava Philosophy recognizes Daiva Varnasrama Dharma which implies classification according to the divine system by which men are divided into castes according to their natural predilection. In the present society is found its corrupted form. There arises no question of hating or disregarding any body according to the system of Varnasrama recognised by Mahaprabhu Shri Chaitanya Deva or according to the process of culturing devotion to God as shown by Him, which is ever beyond that system. In the teaching given by Him there is found instruction to show respect to every creature in its relationship with God. The judgment of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is far superior to the slight improvement of the condition of the lower castes as proposed by the modern social reformers, nay, it far excels even the impartial equality as taught in the Gita. The proposal of the worldly-minded moralists for slightly raising the status of the lower forms of society has some extraneous motive as its cause; there are various purposes hiding behind it, such as political objects, personal interests, motive for acquiring fame and such other ends. These subordinate principles have given rise to attempts for uplifting the lower castes, which are of an extremely worldly character and clearly betrary [sic] their hypocrisy. The instruction in the Gita to look on all as equal to the self from the principle that all are souls is several times more elevated than they and is free from the worldly dirt. But the teaching of Shri Chaitanya Deva is not merely prohibitive of worldliness and based on impartiality, but it is a positive one of the character of transcendentalism or of a supra-mundane type.
Shri Chaitanya Deva wants to engage all jivas in the service of God and thereby to elevate them to the highest status. He converts a crow to Garuda (the prince of Eagles). The religion promulgated by Him is not meant for Bengal alone, nor for India even, but for all countries, all villages. His is the universal religion for all creatures. So has He said: "My Name will be propagated in all towns, all villages that exist in the world." His universal religion of love attracted animals, trees, grass, shrubs, creepers and even the ferocious creatures like tigers, etc., from their outward identification to the inward one of the very essential constitution, having been spread among them too.
The religion as promulgated by Him is that of the soul; and not that of the society, physical, mental and moral, and is not restricted to the usual form of devotion of the servant to the Majestic Lord. Every jiva is entitled to culture His religion, for it is property belonging to every jiva. His religion discovers the innate nature of the jiva soul and is manifested in the unabated plenary love for God. The message of love as propagated by Him is not merely the instruction of pseudo-love founded on gratitude. According to Him, Krishna is the Absolute Personality, the Spiritual Despot. The religion of love consists in the full gratification of His Senses. The jiva should be the fuel to the fire of the gratification of the Senses of the unrestrained Autocrat Whose Will is law. It is the service of that Autocrat under the guidance of those (devotees) who are well established in the eternal service of the gratification of the Senses of Krishna (Who is the very Figure embodying the succulence in pleasure) that is the object to be accomplished by a jiva and also the means to that end. The difference between the Vaishnava Philosophy and all the other philosophies of the world lies in the fact that in the former both the object for accomplishment and the means leading to it are identical without any distinction. The means when purified and matured reveal themselves as the Object. According to the Gaudiya Philosophy the chanting of the mellifluous Name of God constitutes both the end and the means for it. This doctrine concerning the Name of God is a main feature of this Philosophy.
"I do not know, how fortunate I am to have met your Holiness and got spiritually enlightened in this manner," said the interlocutor at the end.
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